Town Centre Latest

[MancWanderer]

5 hours ago, Traf said:

And Rochdale too.

That’s beyond grim. Not sure there’s an actual word to describe that place other than sad

[MancWanderer]

5 hours ago, Cheese said:

Every town in the country is fucking grim. That's 14 years of Tory governance for you.

Fuck all to do with the Tories, or Labour before them. Towns are subject to their local councils. Granted, money flows from the top, but I’ll give you Cliff Morris as an example of how to mismanage spending, management, investment, foresight, planning, infrastructure, etc. Rinse and repeat across the UK

Too many local councillors are pound shop versions of MPs. In it for themselves or the folk who voted for them?

[only1swanny]

7 hours ago, MancWanderer said:

Fuck all to do with the Tories, or Labour before them. Towns are subject to their local councils. Granted, money flows from the top, but I’ll give you Cliff Morris as an example of how to mismanage spending, management, investment, foresight, planning, infrastructure, etc. Rinse and repeat across the UK

Too many local councillors are pound shop versions of MPs. In it for themselves or the folk who voted for them?

It was inevitable the town centres were going to struggle to move on from the shopping habit changes.

Quite literally everything is online,  so why go to a town centre unless it's to pass the time or get something now. If shops aren't doing the business then they'll move on. 

Bury bucked the trend for a while but cracks are appearing there, worth noting that even though there aren't as many empty shops, there are some, and the market hall traders are all now filling empty ones with over 60 businesses spaces being empty in there 

[Not in Crawley]

28 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

It was inevitable the town centres were going to struggle to move on from the shopping habit changes.

Quite literally everything is online,  so why go to a town centre unless it's to pass the time or get something now. If shops aren't doing the business then they'll move on. 

Bury bucked the trend for a while but cracks are appearing there, worth noting that even though there aren't as many empty shops, there are some, and the market hall traders are all now filling empty ones with over 60 businesses spaces being empty in there 

Not everything is online and town centres need to diversify the offering for more one off places. When i was in Bromley that place was rammed everyday of the week and it's just high street shops and is 20 mins from central London surrounded by retail parks as well.

Its the economics of a place that causes the biggest impact, people move out from a town when work is limited into the larger areas. Brain drain is still a huge factor in post industrial Northern towns and cities. Hopefully this is now being addressed but it's years of decline that need addressing not just a pop up clothes shop - people need to start moving back into towns like Bolton instead of leaving.

Here is east Kent there are massive economic problems but towns like Margate, Folkestone and Whitstable have attracted people to move out of London who wouldn't have ever thought of it 20 years ago, firstly transport into London is a thousand times better, good schools and an investment in creative industries offering people spaces for half the price of say East London to create start ups and their own hubs. It's doesn't change everything but it is a huge start in towns becoming vibrant communities again after years of decline. Certainly Margate and Folkestone have really benefitted from this approach.

 

[royal white]

16 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Not everything is online and town centres need to diversify the offering for more one off places. When i was in Bromley that place was rammed everyday of the week and it's just high street shops and is 20 mins from central London surrounded by retail parks as well.

Its the economics of a place that causes the biggest impact, people move out from a town when work is limited into the larger areas. Brain drain is still a huge factor in post industrial Northern towns and cities. Hopefully this is now being addressed but it's years of decline that need addressing not just a pop up clothes shop - people need to start moving back into towns like Bolton instead of leaving.

Here is east Kent there are massive economic problems but towns like Margate, Folkestone and Whitstable have attracted people to move out of London who wouldn't have ever thought of it 20 years ago, firstly transport into London is a thousand times better, good schools and an investment in creative industries offering people spaces for half the price of say East London to create start ups and their own hubs. It's doesn't change everything but it is a huge start in towns becoming vibrant communities again after years of decline. Certainly Margate and Folkestone have really benefitted from this approach.

 

I cannot think of one reason why people would want to move into and around Bolton town centre. 
 

Also what can’t you get online which is available in town centres? 

[Casino]

18 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

 

Here is east Kent there are massive economic problems but towns like Margate, Folkestone and Whitstable have attracted people to move out of London who wouldn't have ever thought of it 20 years ago

 

Where di the locals end up?

Clacton?

[Casino]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

what can’t you get online which is available in town centres? 

Crack

[masi 51]

Bolton is attracting people. It now is overcrowded and cannot take many more, but still they arrive. Our transport infrastructure is broken.  Major arteries around the north west come to a halt every morning and evening. Trains/Trams are unreliable and over priced. The Town centres in each northern town are filled with Money laundering cash only shops such as Vape, Barbers, Takeaways and Cafes. Buildings are popping up everywhere without planning consent and are eyesores.

People cannot get a Dentist or a doctors appointment. Every town centre traffic light has a Crackhead on it. Quite simply put you keep taking out of the pot. One day there will be fuck all left to take.

Edited July 22, 2024 by masi 51

[radcliffe white]

No issues in bury great for shopping 

[Not in Crawley]

17 minutes ago, Casino said:

Where di the locals end up?

Clacton?

Yeah- as I say its not a overall solution - scratch the surface and you've still got economic issues. There are no real big firms, a lot of the business are sole traders but there is a lot of rural poverty with locals being priced out of certain areas due to higher rents and house prices for people moving into the area. DfL'ers are not widely liked at all but they do bring money into areas that even 10 years ago where just places for retired folks - places such as Tankerton which now has thriving local businesses, award winning resturants (https://jojosrestaurant.co.uk/) and local festivals (https://www.zoomevents.co.uk/tankerton-and-whitstable-freewheelin-feastival/) that bring people in. Honestly when I first came to Canterbury in 2000 - it was a place you just ignored, same with whitstable really. And all round this area now housing esates are being built - currently two almost finished and another one about to start being built which means more investment in infastructure. Same has happened in Southend as well - that town has undergone real change - and a lot of that is down to the C2C so people can still work in London but have a better house for young families etc. Transport to major employment hubs is key.

Better links to Manchester with the lure of getting a bigger house once you want to move out of Mcr city centre, more countryside etc and then small independanet business will/can flourish and then after early adopters you can start building a base up of getting more people into a town, but it can't be done without the investment in getting people into areas of work.

[DazBob]

It's been said a million times before, but Bury does well because the shops there are in a very small area. In Bolton they've always been far too spread out.

Most of Bolton town centre needs flattening and for all the shops to be put in a dedicated smaller area.

It also doesn't help with the train and bus station being fucking miles from the market place.

Edited July 22, 2024 by DazBob

[Not in Crawley]

30 minutes ago, royal white said:

I cannot think of one reason why people would want to move into and around Bolton town centre. 
 

Also what can’t you get online which is available in town centres? 

Loads of stuff - small independant shops thrive - people still like to shop. yes I can buy vinyls online but I don't unless its something specific, I go to the record shops because I like to go through, see if there are things in there I fancy (like a german live recording of a Dylan record I got for £8 this weekend) There was a study saying in areas of higher economic growth shopping local was a big thing that people wanted to do - because they aren't so price sensitive and aren't quite as time poor. 

At the same time, you probably wouldn't like there is anything for Hackney for you, younger communities of people are looking for affordable housing, with access to city centres and also some sapce. Woith better infastructure I can totaly see why somewhere like Bolton could start to thrive given its location.

[bolty58]

28 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Bolton is attracting people. It now is overcrowded and cannot take many more, but still they arrive. Our transport infrastructure is broken.  Major arteries around the north west come to a halt every morning and evening. Trains/Trams are unreliable and over priced. The Town centres in each northern town are filled with Money laundering cash only shops such as Vape, Barbers, Takeaways and Cafes. Buildings are popping up everywhere without planning consent and are eyesores.

People cannot get a Dentist or a doctors appointment. Every town centre traffic light has a Crackhead on it. Quite simply put you keep taking out of the pot. One day there will be fuck all left to take.

There are those who saw this coming decades ago. Not the specific details such as vape shops and crackheads. Just the general decline in both civic pride and maintenance plus the inexorable rise in the arrival of interlopers which some will try to convince you is good for the economy.

Don't listen to these well meaning but utterly deluded fools. Get out while you can. The land of 30,000 chances never looked more attractive.

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Loads of stuff - small independant shops thrive - people still like to shop. yes I can buy vinyls online but I don't unless its something specific, I go to the record shops because I like to go through, see if there are things in there I fancy (like a german live recording of a Dylan record I got for £8 this weekend) There was a study saying in areas of higher economic growth shopping local was a big thing that people wanted to do - because they aren't so price sensitive and aren't quite as time poor. 

At the same time, you probably wouldn't like there is anything for Hackney for you, younger communities of people are looking for affordable housing, with access to city centres and also some sapce. Woith better infastructure I can totaly see why somewhere like Bolton could start to thrive given its location.

Like what though? You can literally get everything online. I get that you might like to go and shop local, that’s fair enough, but for most folk if you had the choice of getting it delivered to your door, next day for free or going into town it’s obvious that most would choose the first option. 

[Not in Crawley]

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

It's been said a million times before, but Bury does well because the shops there are in a very small area. In Bolton they've always been far too spread out.

Most of Bolton town centre needs flattening and for all the shops to be put in a dedicated smaller area.

It also doesn't help with the train and bus station being fucking miles from the market place.

To be honest my middle child (she is the most fashion aware of my three) went to Bury on the basis that my Mum had bigged up the shopping last year. I've never seen anyone so underwhelmed in my life....we stayed half an hour and went directly to manchester.

Coming back for my annual visit in a couple of weeks - going to try and give Bolton TC a bit of a go as it's been years since I was in but I think Manchester will win out in the end.

[Not in Crawley]

7 minutes ago, royal white said:

Like what though? You can literally get everything online. I get that you might like to go and shop local, that’s fair enough, but for most folk if you had the choice of getting it delivered to your door, next day for free or going into town it’s obvious that most would choose the first option. 

I just explained it and why people like to still shop and how certain areas are bucking the trend of town-centre decline. Yes you can buy pretty much everything you want on-line now but that's why town centres have to behave differently, and just because you can doesn't mean people don't still like to browse for things - certainly unqiue items and things they we're directly looking for. There are many ways people like to shop, not everyone treats shopping as simple a funcational part of living, some do it for pleasure. Also phychologically human's are social animals - we band together for growth but also because we like to like in areas with other people generally. Online shopping has changed habits massively, but in the Bolton area there are enough people with money in their pockets willing to spend in a town centre with an offer that attracts them

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I just explained it and why people like to still shop and how certain areas are bucking the trend of town-centre decline. Yes you can buy pretty much everything you want on-line now but that's why town centres have to behave differently, and just because you can doesn't mean people don't still like to browse for things - certainly unqiue items and things they we're directly looking for. There are many ways people like to shop, not everyone treats shopping as simple a funcational part of living, some do it for pleasure. Also phychologically human's are social animals - we band together for growth but also because we like to like in areas with other people generally. Online shopping has changed habits massively, but in the Bolton area there are enough people with money in their pockets willing to spend in a town centre with an offer that attracts them

Just your original post you said not everything is available online, now it pretty much is. 🤷🏻 

The market seems to be thriving which is good, but I can’t think of one shop that would attract me to the town centre, theres shops I would use but the free parking at places like TC and Middlebrook, would make me go there  it’s unfortunately a very depressing place. And as for getting people to live there, why? Why would people want to move there? My view is the majority of those living in and around the town centre aren’t there through choice. 

[royal white]

Obviously not on the same scale but Walkden, after decades of failed projects have gone for the garden look: 

 

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23831735.walkden-town-centre-unveils-15m-plans-redevelopment/

[Not in Crawley]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

Just your original post you said not everything is available online, now it pretty much is. 🤷🏻 

The market seems to be thriving which is good, but I can’t think of one shop that would attract me to the town centre, theres shops I would use but the free parking at places like TC and Middlebrook, would make me go there  it’s unfortunately a very depressing place. And as for getting people to live there, why? Why would people want to move there? My view is the majority of those living in and around the town centre aren’t there through choice. 

I was just making a point that certain areas have arrested their decline by catering to certain needs. I also explained certain ways they have done this, that's all.

[DirtySanchez]

4 hours ago, royal white said:

I cannot think of one reason why people would want to move into and around Bolton town centre. 
 

Also what can’t you get online which is available in town centres? 

A haircut

[deeane Koontz]

Bout time to. Might be able to get home from a gig without bankrupting myself

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4y8kdlk39o

[FrancisFogarty]

4 hours ago, royal white said:

Obviously not on the same scale but Walkden, after decades of failed projects have gone for the garden look: 

 

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23831735.walkden-town-centre-unveils-15m-plans-redevelopment/

They want to get a full set of escalators working first. And get rid of the current water features drip buckets.

[Manchester_whites]

4 hours ago, royal white said:

Obviously not on the same scale but Walkden, after decades of failed projects have gone for the garden look: 

 

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/23831735.walkden-town-centre-unveils-15m-plans-redevelopment/

It’s always going to be a struggle setting up a small independent business next to Britains biggest Tesco

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, DirtySanchez said:

A haircut

Weren't they one of the first 'online services' by mum used a mobile hairdresser for years and the whole family would queue up before she had her perm done to get their short back and sides.

[bolton va va]

It's a myth that online shopping has killed town centres. On recent football trips alone, i've been to lots of town centres that are busy & thriving in places as diverse as Peterboro, Plymouth, Greenwich, Cheltenham, Portsmouth, Derby, Barnsley & others (only Burslem was deader than Bolton ) & locally Bury, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool ,Stockport still have busier town centres than Bolton.

It was Morris & his Labour council who did the lasting damage to Bolton TC & it's hard to see it being reversed with so many decent places gone for good.

Can't blame Morris, but it'll be another nail in the coffin if the last traditional town centre pub, The Greyhound, is a goner.