Politics

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Dimron said:

You’re in Blackpool? I’ll tell you a story that illustrates my case.

Back in winter 1975/76 I was a sprog and was “volun-told” to set out and keep an eye on two bridges we were putting over the Palatine… no one else fancied it as it was night works etc.

From my first evening I could see the height of the tram power cables was higher than what was detailed on the drawings but I thought “nowt to do with me, someone else’s problem and I need to get back and go on the piss on Churchgate with my mates”.

The bridges got built and at the company’s expense we had to go back later raise the bridges. I got a minor bollocking but the Chief Engineer got a major.

I was 19 years old and I have obviously now learned… they are all doing it now… these days the youngsters think as long as they send an email or whatsapp it no longer has anything to do with them.

But it has everything to do with everyone… the job has to come first. This is why we are now so crap at infrastructure.

That happened in the 70's, and you're blaming the current state of affairs on cunts who weren't born until 30/40 years later?

[Dimron]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

That happened in the 70's, and you're blaming the current state of affairs on cunts who weren't born until 30/40 years later?

Today's cunts refuse to listen to the voices of experience... they really do believe they know better... i see guys in their mid 30s still behaving in this way without reprimand, I was 19.

My generation and the one before will stand by our record of delivery... we put your Reebok together in 12 months exactly on cost.

 

[Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Today's cunts refuse to listen to the voices of experience... they really do believe they know better... i see guys in their mid 30s still behaving in this way without reprimand, I was 19.

My generation and the one before will stand by our record of delivery... we put your Reebok together in 12 months exactly on cost.

Course they do, and course you did. You were the last generation of "proper workers". The next lot know nowt. As every generation has proclaimed for hundreds of years.

[Dimron]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Course they do, and course you did. You were the last generation of "proper workers". The next lot know nowt. As every generation has proclaimed for hundreds of years.

I was having this conversation recently in the barbers shop... I now believe every generation has to make the same basic cock ups as this is part of the learning process. 

But what has majorly changed is the attitude of the cock-upper to their mistakes and stopping any in-coming problems and I can only blame the schools.

About 20 years ago I did a lot of night school teaching and the old hands in the colleges were telling me the basic raw ingredient from the schools had dropped massively to the extent they had to have extra tuition in the three Rs... i dread to think what it is like these days.

[Cheese]

34 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I was having this conversation recently in the barbers shop... I now believe every generation has to make the same basic cock ups as this is part of the learning process. 

But what has majorly changed is the attitude of the cock-upper to their mistakes and stopping any in-coming problems and I can only blame the schools.

About 20 years ago I did a lot of night school teaching and the old hands in the colleges were telling me the basic raw ingredient from the schools had dropped massively to the extent they had to have extra tuition in the three Rs... i dread to think what it is like these days.

You're obviously of the "golden generation". As were the ones who went before you, and the ones before that, and the ones before that...

Edited October 10 by Cheese

[Spider]

A golden generation that had to scrape frost off windows and spent half a decade on strike.

 

[Dimron]

20 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You're obviously of the "golden generation". As were the ones who went before you, and the ones before that, and the ones before that...

I offered an opinion as to why we do not deliver infrastructure efficiently anymore... as I described when I was learning I respected and listened to the guys who had been doing it for 30 odd years.

Today's lot are too embedded in the risk-averse process management culture and believe they know it all already and aren't interested in any gold dust you can offer.

Sometimes it is like listening to the young lad who has just started banging a girl and needs to tell you all about sex every Monday morning like he's just invented it and you don't have the heart to tell him you've been at it for 50 odd years 

[fatolive]

Good program on bbc2 now showing how “ shit” this country is at infrastructure, some may find interesting, the story of Crossrail. 
over budget but a fantastic engineering feat 

[Cheese]

21 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I offered an opinion as to why we do not deliver infrastructure efficiently anymore... as I described when I was learning I respected and listened to the guys who had been doing it for 30 odd years.

Today's lot are too embedded in the risk-averse process management culture and believe they know it all already and aren't interested in any gold dust you can offer.

Of course they are. You were the best (apart from those who came before you), and always will be.  👍

[Winchester White]

Cheese don't be so dismissive but also Dimron don't be so dismissive.

That's the way these days isn't it?

Everything is changing all the time by the way, it did from the 40's to the 50's to the 60's...

It's like we evolve 😯

[Casino]

Or move to Australia

[bolty58]

4 hours ago, Casino said:

Or move to Australia

 If you get the opportunity.

[Sweep]

9 hours ago, fatolive said:

Good program on bbc2 now showing how “ shit” this country is at infrastructure, some may find interesting, the story of Crossrail. 
over budget but a fantastic engineering feat 

Crossrail is good, but it was also delivered about 4 years late, and 30% over budget wasn't it?......neither of which are quite as good

[fatolive]

41 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Crossrail is good, but it was also delivered about 4 years late, and 30% over budget wasn't it?......neither of which are quite as good

Yeh ,engineering difficulties Covid ( of course ) and finding a graveyard didn’t help, this is where Dimron  is correct, as years ago they’d have just ploughed through that without any thought, today it’s all consideration for the environment, neighbours, workers lives and historic importance. Tarts

but the skill set to achieve it was still there . 

[Not in Crawley]

13 hours ago, Cheese said:

You're obviously of the "golden generation". As were the ones who went before you, and the ones before that, and the ones before that...

Just blame WhatsApp - that seem to be a thing.

[Dimron]

3 hours ago, fatolive said:

Yeh ,engineering difficulties Covid ( of course ) and finding a graveyard didn’t help, this is where Dimron  is correct, as years ago they’d have just ploughed through that without any thought, today it’s all consideration for the environment, neighbours, workers lives and historic importance. Tarts

but the skill set to achieve it was still there . 

Another story illustrating why we are now shit at getting things done:

About 12 years ago i was free-lancing for one of the big infrastructure companies putting up phone masts and windfarms.

I seems a "Graduate Trainee" jumped over a dry stone wall and landed in a rank farm pond. His mates did everything right... hosed him down, sent him back to the digs and took the piss.

Obviously to prove it was "not his fault" he submitted an incident report and the 50-odd grand a year Safety Elfs were all over it and after extensive site investigations, a safety bulletin was issued to everyone in the £2 billion turnover company.

The final result was i could not let anyone walk onto a farm without first issuing them with a 24 page Risk Assessment regarding the dangers of working near farm puddles and ponds, this was before electronic issue and had to be printed and handed to them. 

Oh yes... i also had to get temporary roads formed and get concrete and steel etc. delivered to the back ends of nowhere... but that was all secondary

 

[Not in Crawley]

Sorry Dimron, I'm not sure this highlights why the fundementals of building infastructre are poor now (I'd say its a lot more to do with lack of joined up supply chains and a very populated island which leads to a lot of Nimbyism and huge increased costs but they I'm a ticket tout so I know fuck all)

I do get the point however that because we don't do large infastructure projects to completion anymore, there is a lack of experienced staff who have does this at the highest level in comparison to those who did the job in the 70s and 80s. However, grumbling because people aren't treated as 'gods' or a tighter grip on H&S doesn't really do this argument much good. You just come across as a bit of a moany old 'in my day' bloke when I'm sure there are some real validation to your point.

Its like me moaning because I spend all my day doing digital advertising and having to work with agents for half the cost when I used to be able to book TV, Radio slots and national paper ads and achieve the same results, make more money and it take half the time, getting cut price rates over a pint at lunchtime and moan that the 'kids' dont see the value of trad media when it still has its place and they fanny about on organic instagram post that 7 people see whilst posting about their gym bros. Basically, you have to accept both experiences make the whole.

[Cheese]

28 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Another story illustrating why we are now shit at getting things done:

About 12 years ago i was free-lancing for one of the big infrastructure companies putting up phone masts and windfarms.

I seems a "Graduate Trainee" jumped over a dry stone wall and landed in a rank farm pond. His mates did everything right... hosed him down, sent him back to the digs and took the piss.

Obviously to prove it was "not his fault" he submitted an incident report and the 50-odd grand a year Safety Elfs were all over it and after extensive site investigations, a safety bulletin was issued to everyone in the £2 billion turnover company.

The final result was i could not let anyone walk onto a farm without first issuing them with a 24 page Risk Assessment regarding the dangers of working near farm puddles and ponds, this was before electronic issue and had to be printed and handed to them. 

Oh yes... i also had to get temporary roads formed and get concrete and steel etc. delivered to the back ends of nowhere... but that was all secondary

God forbid companies being forced to care about their employees wellbeing, and doing their best to make sure they don't die on the job.

[Dimron]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

God forbid companies being forced to care about their employees wellbeing, and doing their best to make sure they don't die on the job.

Or getting muddy 🙂

[Farrelli]

we have always been known as slapdash on big contracts. Summed up nicely by this channel tunnel contractor sketch.

[bolty58]

1 minute ago, Dimron said:

Or getting muddy 🙂

I'll die happy if I die on the job.

[Sweep]

We can complain as much as we want about overzealous H&S, but we must want/need it, or it wouldn't be happening. Can we still blame the EU?

I know some will blame "the woke" and "Political Correctness Gone Mad" - and those people we know will be the sort who think everything was so much better in the 70s (when it just wasn't)

Old cunts will always moan, that everything was better before, we'll be no different when we get "old cunt status" I'm sure. It's always happened and always will.

We kind of started off talking about how anything infrastructure related, seems to always go over budget and over timescales, and in many cases, quite dramatically. Is the main issue not just that we're a bit fucking lazy, our productivity levels are well known for being far less than our neighbours aren't they?

[fatolive]

1 minute ago, bolty58 said:

I'll die happy if I die on the job.

You passengers on the bus won’t 😄

[Dimron]

47 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Another story illustrating why we are now shit at getting things done:

About 12 years ago i was free-lancing for one of the big infrastructure companies putting up phone masts and windfarms.

I seems a "Graduate Trainee" jumped over a dry stone wall and landed in a rank farm pond. His mates did everything right... hosed him down, sent him back to the digs and took the piss.

Obviously to prove it was "not his fault" he submitted an incident report and the 50-odd grand a year Safety Elfs were all over it and after extensive site investigations, a safety bulletin was issued to everyone in the £2 billion turnover company.

The final result was i could not let anyone walk onto a farm without first issuing them with a 24 page Risk Assessment regarding the dangers of working near farm puddles and ponds, this was before electronic issue and had to be printed and handed to them. 

Oh yes... i also had to get temporary roads formed and get concrete and steel etc. delivered to the back ends of nowhere... but that was all secondary

 

I might be presenting myself as a moaning old git but you should see the look of relief on Clients and Architects faces when I take over a job a self indulged youngster has messed up.

Give me less than a day with the drawings and specifications and I will tell you were the money we be lost and made and where the snarl ups will be... and all that is without a Microsoft Project Management programme.

Now is a good time for me to retire, our new younger "next generation" commercial team cut me out of the adjudication process last year and I now get parachuted in when it all goes tits up!

[Dimron]

11 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

I'll die happy if I die on the job.

Working outside on Civils jobs is like messing around down the seven acres as a kid and getting paid for it... a privilege