Politics

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I certainly think he'll blink beforethey do, it'll be interesting to see how he frames it as a win, which he will

As will his followers, regardless of what happens. He could dig up the Queen and bum her corpse, and they'd say it was superb.

[ZiggyStardust]

1 hour ago, Dimron said:

"Special Measures" Bill being debated in Parliament and Lords on a Saturday... first Saturday sitting since the Falklands.

They haven't published accounts since 2023

Except the one in 2019. And the one in 2022.

It's the first Recall of parliament (they are currently on recess) for a Saturday Sitting since 1982.

[Not in Crawley]

32 minutes ago, Cheese said:

As will his followers, regardless of what happens. He could dig up the Queen and bum her corpse, and they'd say it was superb.

I mean you've got one on here who thinks Le Pen is the future of Europe.

 

[kent_white]

3 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

I mean you've got one on here who thinks Le Pen is the future of Europe.

 

He might not be far wrong though, sadly. 

[bolty58]

9 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Statement just now re British Steel.

Legislation to allow government to take control of plant tomorrow. 

Not yet confirmed whether it is nationalisation, or whether it is with a view to a future take over.

Good.

Steel production is vital to our security amongst others.

Much as my conservative principles steer me to avoiding loss makers, I agree. Must keep our key skills, abilities and products.

Slightly different but I would most likely be in support of re-nationalising British Rail. That key transport system is an inefficient, fragmented joke IMO.

Liking Andy Burnham. Liking this current governments backbone in addressing the glass backed lazy fuckers issue and cutting foreign aid.

I am starting to worry that I'll soon be wearing a one starred beret and shouting 'power to the people'.

[bolty58]

8 hours ago, kent_white said:

I can understand why people who are 15/20 years older than me balk at the thought of socialism. Just because of it being tied in with the cold war an the excesses of communism. 

But because something didn't work perfectly 50 years ago - doesn't mean that elements of it woundn't work well in 2025.

Im not going down the 'all private property is theft' route - but paying a bit more tax for good quality public services that are under the custodianship of the state seems eminently sensible to me. Anyway - an argument for another day perhaps?

Slippery slope. I am resuming callous conservatism classes very soon. It's gone too far now.

[bolty58]

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

He might not be far wrong though, sadly. 

...and not just Le Pen. Wilders, Meloni, Orban, Farage. Wake up and smell the English Breakfast.

We'll be coming down the road.

I remain hopeful that Le Pen will not be the future of Europe. I hope that she will destroy the future of the European Union.

Death to big, overbearing governance.

Edited April 12, 2025 by bolty58

[Spider]

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Much as my conservative principles steer me to avoiding loss makers, I agree. Must keep our key skills, abilities and products.

Slightly different but I would most likely be in support of re-nationalising British Rail. That key transport system is an inefficient, fragmented joke IMO.

Liking Andy Burnham. Liking this current governments backbone in addressing the glass backed lazy fuckers issue and cutting foreign aid.

I am starting to worry that I'll soon be wearing a one starred beret and shouting 'power to the people'.

Changing one’s mind is a liberating experience.

Welcome on board.

Great post 👍

[Tonge moor green jacket]

The plant loses £700,000 per day.

Do folk want that on the balance sheet, and the effect of cutting public services to pay for it?

A hell of a lot to consider.

Ed Davey has suggested making it a national asset, similar to what I suggested above, to make certain industries buy from them.

Again, a fine sounding idea, but with consequent drawbacks.

There is no quick fix whatsoever, and the debate over nationalisation/privatisation is plain daft, political ideology, and missing the bleeding obvious.

We currently have one of the worst situations for a steel plant (and business in general) and that won't change whoever owns it.

[Spider]

I don’t care if it’s a Labour, Tory or reform policy, whatever they do today the MUST save that plant.

3,000 families rely on it, but just as importantly so do thousands of others indirectly via the supply chain.

As Bolty rightly says, key skills abilities and products would die and set us back years at the worst possible moment.

cant be any party politics here, just save that fckin company.

Edited April 12, 2025 by Spider

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Much as my conservative principles steer me to avoiding loss makers, I agree. Must keep our key skills, abilities and products.

Slightly different but I would most likely be in support of re-nationalising British Rail. That key transport system is an inefficient, fragmented joke IMO.

Liking Andy Burnham. Liking this current governments backbone in addressing the glass backed lazy fuckers issue and cutting foreign aid.

I am starting to worry that I'll soon be wearing a one starred beret and shouting 'power to the people'.

Yep, there are certain industries that are vital.

There are additional, slightly disingenuous arguments over the effect of net-zero on the industry. There is clearly an effect on it, but the industry has struggled for ages; well before net-zero came into being.

The mis-informed reference to virgin steel by commentators also muddies the waters.

An "environment/slavery tax" on certain imports may be an option, but that may appear to be "tariff-esque" and would be met with responses.

Big decision ahead, with one fundamental question- at this moment in time, can the government afford to buy it, let alone run it?

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

6 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don’t care if it’s a Labour, Tory or reform policy, whatever they do today the MUST save that plant.

3,000 families rely on it, but just as importantly so do thousands of others indirectly via the supply chain.

As Bolty rightly says, key skills abilities and products would die and set us back years at the worst possible moment.

cant be any party politics here, just save that fckin company.

Yes.

National security. 

 

[Spider]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep, there are certain industries that are vital.

There are additional, slightly disingenuous arguments over the effect of net-zero on the industry. There is clearly an effect on it, but the industry has struggled for ages; well before net-zero came into being.

The mis-informed reference to virgin steel by commentators also muddies the waters.

An "environment/slavery tax" on certain imports may be an option, but that may appear to be "tariff-esque" and would be met with responses.

Big decision ahead, with one fundamental question- at this moment in time, can the government afford to buy it, let alone run it?

 

If it’s managed right, and they pull the right levers, then it can be a success.

For example, creditors will now give more favourable terms to a government backed company, better deals can be negotiated throughout the supply chain.

The confidence it will bring is huge. We manufacture with steel and a lot of people buy off us because we’re British, and it’s known that our standards are the highest possible (they have to be).

The steel industry has been under the pump for years but I assure you from the inside, that this would be a massive boost.

[Dimron]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep, there are certain industries that are vital.

There are additional, slightly disingenuous arguments over the effect of net-zero on the industry. There is clearly an effect on it, but the industry has struggled for ages; well before net-zero came into being.

The mis-informed reference to virgin steel by commentators also muddies the waters.

An "environment/slavery tax" on certain imports may be an option, but that may appear to be "tariff-esque" and would be met with responses.

Big decision ahead, with one fundamental question- at this moment in time, can the government afford to buy it, let alone run it?

 

The mis-informed reference to virgin steel by commentators also muddies the waters

But you ain't going to build nuclear submarines from Electric Arc Furnace recycled steel

Edited April 12, 2025 by Dimron

[Dimron]

2 hours ago, Spider said:

If it’s managed right, and they pull the right levers, then it can be a success.

For example, creditors will now give more favourable terms to a government backed company, better deals can be negotiated throughout the supply chain.

The confidence it will bring is huge. We manufacture with steel and a lot of people buy off us because we’re British, and it’s known that our standards are the highest possible (they have to be).

The steel industry has been under the pump for years but I assure you from the inside, that this would be a massive boost.

Been totally and intentionally mis-managed and now caught in a political tangle, the Chinese want us to lose our steel industry.

Quoted as losing £700k per day (real figure probably lower) but the Chinese have still been extracting £70 million per annum out of the accounts as interest. I recall they promised to invest over 1 billion when the deal was done... there is a difference between a parent company loan and an investment... are they in some sort of breach?

 

[Dimron]

7 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Much as my conservative principles steer me to avoiding loss makers, I agree. Must keep our key skills, abilities and products.

Slightly different but I would most likely be in support of re-nationalising British Rail. That key transport system is an inefficient, fragmented joke IMO.

Liking Andy Burnham. Liking this current governments backbone in addressing the glass backed lazy fuckers issue and cutting foreign aid.

I am starting to worry that I'll soon be wearing a one starred beret and shouting 'power to the people'.

Slightly different but I would most likely be in support of re-nationalising British Rail. That key transport system is an inefficient, fragmented joke IMO.

The biggest drag on the rail industry are the ROSCOs who actually own the rolling stock and lease it to the franchisees, if we nationalise the operators and leave the actual stock in private hands the ROSCOs will continue to extract over £400 million in annual dividends, mainly to overseas investors.

[Spider]

10 minutes ago, Dimron said:

Been totally and intentionally mis-managed and now caught in a political tangle, the Chinese want us to lose our steel industry.

Quoted as losing £700k per day (real figure probably lower) but the Chinese have still been extracting £70 million per annum out of the accounts as interest. I recall they promised to invest over 1 billion when the deal was done... there is a difference between a parent company loan and an investment... are they in some sort of breach?

 

I’m a capitalist at heart, but firmly believe certain things shoukd be government backed/owned.

Health, trains, steel, energy.

[Dimron]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

I’m a capitalist at heart, but firmly believe certain things shoukd be government backed/owned.

Health, trains, steel, energy.

water

[Spider]

Just now, Dimron said:

water

Was just about to update my post with that 😁

[Bertie]

Slightly different but I also think the running of key public services (ie healthcare, social care  & education) should be taken out of politics, but still funded by the public purse.  Get true experts running these services as best-in-class, and avoid knee-jerk politically-driven changes by a bunch of ignorant numpties every 5 years.

[Dimron]

10 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Slightly different but I also think the running of key public services (ie healthcare, social care  & education) should be taken out of politics, but still funded by the public purse.  Get true experts running these services as best-in-class, and avoid knee-jerk politically-driven changes by a bunch of ignorant numpties every 5 years.

Agreed, it's a long haul not a five year stint

[bolty58]

1 hour ago, Dimron said:

Agreed, it's a long haul not a five year stint

The 'true experts' and 'best in class' descriptions are laudable.

How this works with 'diversity and inclusion quotas' is another story.

Best person for the job every single time in whatever sphere.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 hours ago, Spider said:

I’m a capitalist at heart, but firmly believe certain things shoukd be government backed/owned.

Health, trains, steel, energy.

Water

[kent_white]

[athywhite1958]

I saw on GMTV this morning that enough coke (the fuel type) and ore is on it's way to Scunthorpe and should be here in a couple of days from America, so help was on it's way before the Government stepped in unless the ships can get here in a couple of days