Coronavirus

[radcliffe white]

Awesome traf 

 

[Rudy]

23 minutes ago, Traf said:

You asked at least twice and nobody was taking you on.

I call that rude, so I had to step in. It's Easter Sunday FFS.

Bloody disgraceful 

I’ll dig out a belter for later 

[London Wanderer]

44 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

1. Where is the evidence that they didn’t start to prepare? My understanding is they did. Maybe they’ve undercooked it but as we’ve seen on this board numerous examples why things haven’t gone and still aren’t going to plan despite best efforts

 

2. that’s like me saying I’ve got a differing view on strategy for my employer and I’m not sure why they don’t listen to my ideas and fuck the ceo off. Because ultimately he’s much more qualified than Me and is employed for that reason. I’m not. 
 

again one last time. Hindsight is a wonderful tool. I know last weeks lottery numbers. Why didn’t I put them on 

I'de say the evidence goes back to 2016 when the government tested its ability and that of the healthcare system to handle a pandemic. The results were subsequently kept secret from the public and the test wasn't used as a reason to increase funding and preparation. If my school failed a fire drill or inspection- we'd be making changes within days and tesing again.  

"Ministers were informed three years ago that Britain would be quickly overwhelmed by a severe outbreak amid a shortage of critical care beds, morgue capacity and personal protective equipment (PPE), an investigation has discovered". https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exclusive-ministers-warned-nhs-could-not-cope-pandemic-three/

You only need to look at what is happening in care homes now and across the NHS to see that there are inconsistencies in how well resourced and prepared different areas are. Listening to Kent White you hear one thing and then listening to my brother (a nurse) or mates working in care you hear another. Some folk have enough and some have absolutely nothing or have only just been given resources. Many have been let down and even a doctor that was pleading more equipment end contracting the illness and sadly dying. I accept that even if we were suitably prepared- frontline workers would still pass away. But no doctor should be pleading more for. 

For me- those inconsistencies are evidence that we didn't prepare in time. The risk of it spreading across the country had been at moderate since January. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by London Wanderer

[SatanGreavsie]

Trouble is, however much of expert someone is viruses and how to deal with them, they can only go on previous data - and global spreads of a new virus like this aren't exactly common.

Plus, even researching historical events still has severe limits when it comes to assessing how to deal with it at a societal level. You might have a pretty good idea of how viruses move, thanks to looking at earlier events, but here you have to take into account the fact that we're connected in an internet age. That changes how fast you can get info out, how people can cope being in lockdown, how they can genuinely work from home etc. All of that changes the notion of what the most effective approach it.

I mean, on another thread we've been banging on about seasons from the early 80s. Imagine if this had kicked off in 1983. All manner of aspects of how the public could cope/respond would be completely different. So if indeed it had done back then, then lessons learnt by an expert looking back at it would have to be drastically revised. Or put another way, they'd just be wrong.

[Sweep]

42 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Spain, Italy, France, lock downed before us and all currently have higher death rate than we do.

They're also further ahead in the curve though aren't they? - I think most people would be surprised if we don't end up, sadly, posting similar numbers

Are you still adamant that we won't be seeing the kind of deaths that Italy and Spain are seeing?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

I'de say the evidence goes back to 2016 when the government tested its ability and that of the healthcare system to handle a pandemic. The results were subsequently kept secret from the public and the test wasn't used as a reason to increase funding and preparation. If my school failed a fire drill or inspection- we'd be making changes within days and tesing again.  

"Ministers were informed three years ago that Britain would be quickly overwhelmed by a severe outbreak amid a shortage of critical care beds, morgue capacity and personal protective equipment (PPE), an investigation has discovered". https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exclusive-ministers-warned-nhs-could-not-cope-pandemic-three/

You only need to look at what is happening in care homes now and across the NHS to see that there are inconsistencies in how well resourced and prepared different areas are. Listening to Kent White you hear one thing and then listening to my brother (a nurse) or mates working in care you hear another. Some folk have enough and some have absolutely nothing or have only just got enough. Many have been let down and even a doctor that was pleading more equipment end up dying.

For me- those inconsistencies are evidence that we didn't prepare in time. The risk of it spreading across the country had been at moderate since January. 

Yes, it’s the fault of the nasty tories

there, do you feel better now?

What will you do now that know?

 

Anyway, aren’t you happy now we have the world economy on its arse?

Edited April 12, 2020 by boltondiver

[London Wanderer]

9 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Yes, it’s the fault of the nasty tories

there, do you feel better now?

What will you do now that know?

In all fairness mate- that's a childish response. I made it clear in my post earlier that this wasn't about party politics. Just look at Spain and Italy- differing sides of the spectrum and mistakes still made. A labour government here could have easily made the same mistakes.

Yes I think Boris in a buffoon- but I also think members of his cabinet have stepped up when it mattered and I'll take my hats off to some of them. 

I'm entitled to scrutinise and I'm looking at a variety of sources when I do. I'de say there's evidence that we acted slowly and that we were complacent. 

It's got fuck all to do with getting one over on the Tories. They are in power for another 5 years and the point of this scrutiny and a public enquiry is that legally binding changes are put in place. So in the future, no matter which party is in charge, we are prepared. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by London Wanderer

[miamiwhite]

5 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

In all fairness mate- that's a childish response. I made it clear in my post earlier that this wasn't about party politics. Just look at Spain and Italy- differing sides of the spectrum and mistakes still made. A labour government here could have easily made the same mistakes.

Yes I think Boris in a buffoon- but I also think members of his cabinet have stepped up when it mattered and I'll take my hats off to some of them. 

I'm entitled to scrutinise and I'm looking at a variety of sources when I do. I'de say there's evidence that we acted slowly and that we were complacent. 

It's got fuck all to do with getting one over on the Tories. They are in power for another 5 years and the point of this scrutiny and a public enquiry is that legally binding changes are put in place. So in the future, no matter which party is in charge, we are prepared. 

Do you think your party of choice would have been prepared if they were in power ?

And if so, please explain why and also show proof they were planning for such a pandemic in their manifesto.

Thanks, I'll wait.

[Farrelli]

9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

In all fairness mate- that's a childish response. I made it clear in my post earlier that this wasn't about party politics. Just look at Spain and Italy- differing sides of the spectrum and mistakes still made. A labour government here could have easily made the same mistakes.

Yes I think Boris in a buffoon- but I also think members of his cabinet have stepped up when it mattered and I'll take my hats off to some of them. 

I'm entitled to scrutinise and I'm looking at a variety of sources when I do. I'de say there's evidence that we acted slowly and that we were complacent. 

It's got fuck all to do with getting one over on the Tories. They are in power for another 5 years and the point of this scrutiny and a public enquiry is that legally binding changes are put in place. So in the future, no matter which party is in charge, we are prepared. 

👌 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

In all fairness mate- that's a childish response. I made it clear in my post earlier that this wasn't about party politics. Just look at Spain and Italy- differing sides of the spectrum and mistakes still made. A labour government here could have easily made the same mistakes.

Yes I think Boris in a buffoon- but I also think members of his cabinet have stepped up when it mattered and I'll take my hats off to some of them. 

I'm entitled to scrutinise and I'm looking at a variety of sources when I do. I'de say there's evidence that we acted slowly and that we were complacent. 

It's got fuck all to do with getting one over on the Tories. They are in power for another 5 years and the point of this scrutiny and a public enquiry is that legally binding changes are put in place. So in the future, no matter which party is in charge, we are prepared. 

Does your scrutiny go as far as examining how prepared, or otherwise, the NHS were?

[London Wanderer]

58 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Spain, Italy, France, lock downed before us and all currently have higher death rate than we do. Only South Korea and Germany have vastly different death rates and I think that was due to test and tracking of those who had CV. Seems you don’t like Johnson to me. 

No shit Sherlock

I'm delighted he pulled through- but his experiences don't absolve him from complacency. In fact I would argue the fact he nearly died was evidence of this complacency. 

“I’m shaking hands continuously. I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you’ll be pleased to know. I continue to shake hands". - On the third March. Sound advice from our leader during a pandemic. I've said it twice and I'll say it again though- luckily we've got other members of that cabinet stepping up to the game when it matters. 

I'de say another WWays member answered your point on numbers in Spain, Italy and France. But- South Korea and Germany are clearly not the only countries with vastly different death rates. New Zealand, Finland, Japan- the list could go on. The evidence (IMO) shows that the countries that took the least risk have the lowest death rates. 
 

[Farrelli]

4 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Do you think your party of choice would have been prepared if they were in power ?

And if so, please explain why and also show proof they were planning for such a pandemic in their manifesto.

Thanks, I'll wait.

Do you ever read any post and engage your brain before replying with one of your patronising cloth eared classics🤠

He said it was not about party politics and a labour government would probably have made the same mistakes. That seems fairly unequivocal so time to get your blinkers off and accept there has been a grave failure in planning from this government.

[miamiwhite]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Do you ever read any post and engage your brain before replying with one of your patronising cloth eared classics🤠

He said it was not about party politics and a labour government would probably have made the same mistakes. That seems fairly unequivocal so time to get your blinkers off and accept there has been a grave failure in planning from this government.

Haha....take your rose tinted glasses off you clown.

Everyone on here knows it was a political post from him, but you back him as he says it wasn't political.

Give me strength 

[radcliffe white]

Time for Kelly brook 

[miamiwhite]

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Do you ever read any post and engage your brain before replying with one of your patronising cloth eared classics🤠

He said it was not about party politics and a labour government would probably have made the same mistakes. That seems fairly unequivocal so time to get your blinkers off and accept there has been a grave failure in planning from this government.

Secondly....did I even say his party was the Labour party ? No I didn't....so I suggest you read the posts thoroughly before engaging your brain  and replying with your patronising cloth eared classics....as you were

[London Wanderer]

24 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Does your scrutiny go as far as examining how prepared, or otherwise, the NHS were?

Absolutely. And Scotland- with a devolved NHS- have still found their care system and frontline nurses under resourced in some areas. 

But we can't deny our NHS hasn'y taken a huge financial hit over the past ten years which will have impacted on their ability to prepare for these things. Like I said- let's learn from it and make it a future priority. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by London Wanderer

[Escobarp]

[SatanGreavsie]

11 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Time for Kelly brook 

Edited April 12, 2020 by SatanGreavsie

[London Wanderer]

20 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Haha....take your rose tinted glasses off you clown.

Everyone on here knows it was a political post from him, but you back him as he says it wasn't political.

Give me strength 

Exactly my reaction when you asked me if I thought my 'party of choice' would have made the same mistakes and to submit fucking evidence   - When I had clearly already posted that who's to say Labour or anyone else wouldn't have made the same mistakes. 

If we were to get all philofuckingsophical on this one- I'de say- define political? 

Much of what we post on this thread is political- the very situation we find ourselves in is surrounded by politics on every corner. Scrutiny is healthy and is needed more than anything in this situation- so we learn- so we prevent a second peak and so we are prepared for future pandemics. 

p.s - thanks Traf & now Escobarb- keep em coming. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by London Wanderer

[kent_white]

19 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Does your scrutiny go as far as examining how prepared, or otherwise, the NHS were?

It wouldn't really be the NHS. It would be Public Health and the Government. 

And Public Health has been absolutely destroyed over the past decade.

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

Ffs! We are in unprecedented territory and there's a blame game going on. Just what we fucking need! 

 

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

Ffs! We are in unprecedented territory and there's a blame game going on. Just what we fucking need! 

It’s relentless and the usual suspects with a few new bods chucked in to replace the ones who have departed. 
 

so good I quoted you twice pal 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Escobarp

[Zico]

40 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

In all fairness mate- that's a childish response. I made it clear in my post earlier that this wasn't about party politics. Just look at Spain and Italy- differing sides of the spectrum and mistakes still made. A labour government here could have easily made the same mistakes.

Yes I think Boris in a buffoon- but I also think members of his cabinet have stepped up when it mattered and I'll take my hats off to some of them. 

I'm entitled to scrutinise and I'm looking at a variety of sources when I do. I'de say there's evidence that we acted slowly and that we were complacent. 

It's got fuck all to do with getting one over on the Tories. They are in power for another 5 years and the point of this scrutiny and a public enquiry is that legally binding changes are put in place. So in the future, no matter which party is in charge, we are prepared. 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

[radcliffe white]

6 minutes ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Getting excited before I opened that notification 

Not my cup of tea 

rather see Gail platt sunbathing

then again ...

 

[miamiwhite]

4 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Exactly my reaction when you asked me if I thought my 'party of choice' would have made the same mistakes and to submit fucking evidence   - When I had clearly already posted that who's to say Labour or anyone else wouldn't have made the same mistakes. 

That being said - Labour isn't my party of choice. You just assumed that because I called Boris a buffoon and accused the Conservatives of complacency (to begin with). 

And if we were to get all philofuckingsophical on this one- I'de say- define political? 

Much of what we post on this thread is political- the very situation we find ourselves in is surrounded by politics on every corner. Scrutiny is healthy and is needed more than anything in this situation- so we learn- so we prevent a second peak and so we are prepared for future pandemics. 

p.s - thanks Traf & now Escobarb- keep em coming. 

Scrunity is healthy indeed, and definitely needed, though I didn't presume you are a Labour voter, I'd put you down for more of a Green party or Liberal 

[Zico]

3 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Ffs! We are in unprecedented territory and there's a blame game going on. Just what we fucking need! 

it's like when KA was in charge

plenty didn't want to hear criticism when he was here

and plenty of those same people didn't want to hear after he was gone, saying it was pointless and it's time to move on

anyway staunchly defending the government now will no doubt act the same way, and this will probably never go away completely, so when would be the best time to reflect on what's going on?

I'd say on an as you go basis, from day to day, week to week, as opposed to waiting to see how it pans out, that seems pointless to me