Meanwhile in Ukraine

[gonzo]

The Iraq war was voted by all in the commons was it not?

[royal white]

26 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Come on mate! 

Let's not paint everything as Labour vs Conservatives - there's too much at stake here to turn this into another polarising us vs them debate. I'm so tired of those arguments. 

What we can probably all agree on is that we want peace in Ukraine. All we differ on is on the best way to achieve it. 

I'd support British troops on the ground as part of a peacekeeping mission. Albeit that's very easy for me to say as it's unlikely I'd be ever sent there. 

What's your view as ex forces?

It does seem a very Labour thing to do! 
 

Yes we all want peace, and I think the best way of achieving this is through talks. Since Ukraine has kicked off its been a case of let’s just send money and see what happens. That’s not going to bring peace. Look what’s happening now, emergency meetings in France by European leaders to discuss recent events. All of a sudden it’s like they want to pull their fingers out, where were the emergency meetings over the last 12 months? 
 

I’d be pretty pissed off if I was still in. You’ve got one bloke trying to put an end to it then you’ve got our own gaffer saying let’s send out lot in. 
 

[Sweep]

36 minutes ago, gonzo said:

The Iraq war was voted by all in the commons was it not?

And it was Johnson and the Conservative Party who decided that we should start sending billions of pounds over to Ukraine and let loads of them into this country, without any idea/concept of how long we might have to do that for, in a war that ultimately the Ukraine could/can never, ever win

[gonzo]

Yeah but Labour 

[royal white]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Yeah but Labour 

They love a good war 😉

[Zico]

54 minutes ago, gonzo said:

The Iraq war was voted by all in the commons was it not?

which one?

the one in 2003 when Labour were in charge

or the one in 1991 when Conservatives were in charge 

(don't forget the Falklands - a quick google suggests more troops were killed there than both Iraq wars put together)

[Tonge moor green jacket]

57 minutes ago, royal white said:

It does seem a very Labour thing to do! 
 

Yes we all want peace, and I think the best way of achieving this is through talks. Since Ukraine has kicked off its been a case of let’s just send money and see what happens. That’s not going to bring peace. Look what’s happening now, emergency meetings in France by European leaders to discuss recent events. All of a sudden it’s like they want to pull their fingers out, where were the emergency meetings over the last 12 months? 
 

I’d be pretty pissed off if I was still in. You’ve got one bloke trying to put an end to it then you’ve got our own gaffer saying let’s send out lot in. 
 

Not sure saying send our lot in works at the moment, as it makes us an outlier.

That said, I think sending a strong message to Ukraine helps when it comes to talks.

As does helping then with arms.

Russia miscalculated and had suffered far more than anticipated. 

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, Zico said:

which one?

the one in 2003 when Labour were in charge

or the one in 1991 when Conservatives were in charge 

(don't forget the Falklands - a quick google suggests more troops were killed there than both Iraq wars put together)

Stay on Google for a minute and check who the Falkland Islands belong to 

[mickbrown]

If we're playing that game the Tories took us into WW2 and the Liberals into WW1

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Zico said:

which one?

the one in 2003 when Labour were in charge

or the one in 1991 when Conservatives were in charge 

(don't forget the Falklands - a quick google suggests more troops were killed there than both Iraq wars put together)

We were on our own in the Falklands war.

We were part of a coalition in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Total numbers may put a different complexion on it.

[Zico]

7 minutes ago, royal white said:

Stay on Google for a minute and check who the Falkland Islands belong to 

tell that to them who think Zelensky should let Putin have some of his land

[royal white]

I think most of us have agreed on here that the asylum seekers in hotels need to be given a job and start paying taxes. Maybe there’s a few opportunities coming up soon. 

[Zico]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

We were on our own in the Falklands war.

We were part of a coalition in Iraq, and Afghanistan. Total numbers may put a different complexion on it.

regardless

it's not a very Labour thing to go to war is it

[bolty58]

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

Reckon UK, Europe and Ukraine could have it with Russia without the yanks? 

Probably but not just Europe and Ukraine.

Putin would be in Paris before Brussels had decided which treaty might be broken.

[bolty58]

3 hours ago, gonzo said:

Yep. It's almost as if they wanted Brexit and Trump in the first place

Didn't most of us?

[bolty58]

2 hours ago, kent_white said:

Pre fucking cisely! 

Always good backing winners.

[bolty58]

48 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Yeah but Labour 

I note no full stop. Add it when you have edited in the last two words. "Are shit".

[bolty58]

16 minutes ago, Zico said:

regardless

it's not a very Labour thing to go to war is it

Not face to face, no.

Sneaky backstabbings more their style. They'll be weaponising the judiciary next - if they haven't already.

[royal white]

18 minutes ago, Zico said:

tell that to them who think Zelensky should let Putin have some of his land

Britain fought back for its own land, 1000s of miles away from home with no help from their allies. 
 

Ukraine is getting more than enough help from numerous countries. There’s absolutely no need to send British troops over. 

[Zico]

17 minutes ago, royal white said:

Britain fought back for its own land, 1000s of miles away from home with no help from their allies. 
 

Ukraine is getting more than enough help from numerous countries. There’s absolutely no need to send British troops over. 

I'd rather not, would rather support them in other ways - i.e. weapons and training

but if "peace talks" see Putin wanting to keep the land he's taken, then I'd rather see Ukraine get whatever help is needed to prevent that from happening and get them off it

[Tonge moor green jacket]

39 minutes ago, Zico said:

regardless

it's not a very Labour thing to go to war is it

Why?

Not sure what you mean.

Doesn't matter who is in government at the time; the house gets a vote.

I don't regard "war" as a value of any party, just unfortunate for those in power at the time that they have to deal with the situation.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

I'd rather not, would rather support them in other ways - i.e. weapons and training

but if "peace talks" see Putin wanting to keep the land he's taken, then I'd rather see Ukraine get whatever help is needed to prevent that from happening and get them off it

I've no doubt he'll want to keep it!

Doesn't mean he will get what he wants.

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why?

Not sure what you mean.

Doesn't matter who is in government at the time; the house gets a vote.

I don't regard "war" as a value of any party, just unfortunate for those in power at the time that they have to deal with the situation.

Not necessarily. The Prime Minister can send UK armed forces to war without a Parliamentary vote.

[gonzo]

17 minutes ago, Zico said:

I'd rather not, would rather support them in other ways - i.e. weapons and training

but if "peace talks" see Putin wanting to keep the land he's taken, then I'd rather see Ukraine get whatever help is needed to prevent that from happening and get them off it

That's where I'm at really. I get Trumps moan about their donations being higher than everyone else. 

Throwing money at it won't work in the long run. Russia will park the bus until everyone's money runs out.

[Dimron]

3 hours ago, Zico said:

except the baltics, Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU so they might consider themselves European

That is my point, I only think of Europe in a geographical sense but as a political bloc it has expanded beyond its geographical region into Eurasia and I don't think I want us to be part of that. Bringing in the relatively undeveloped eastern economies has undoubtedly damage ours and the other western economies and it appears we are now putting our security at stake.

I am all for a common market based on the original concept but I have never been on board with the eastern expansion, to my mind it appears "Europe" has been hijacked