Meanwhile in Ukraine

[bolty58]

53 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Probably missed the point ... I've not read back. But to think Russia would happily withdraw before starting talks is bonkers and that's what I was replying to.

You do know there's a lot of Russian support from the Ukrainian people before the war right? It won't be a shock to me when the territory lines are eventually drawn up.

May be wrong but I don't think he wants and never did want more territory and even if he or the Russian forces did there's no way he'd achieve it. There army has been decimated and equipment they use shown up to be very outdated.

At least Trump is trying to do something positive no? Ending the war and civilian casualties. No one has got close since it started but because its Trump there's meltdowns all over the place. To me and Ukrainians I know it's a good sign, a step forward instead of nothing.

UK troops on the ground and you'd be staring WW3 ... Just give up part of Ukraine that most people living there wanted anyway.

 

Possibly displaying a bit too much knowledge and logic there mate. You'll have a few brains hurting with this post.

[royal white]

10 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

 

I don't see anything positive in the way Trump is approaching this. I'd love to be wrong and see him pull off a master stroke.. but I very much doubt it. 

We'll look back and regret not doing more in my opinion. 

Anyone who thinks Putin will just stop at Ukraine isn't seeing the bigger picture.

Meddling in the current German election, the Georgian election. Don't be surprised if he goes for Moldova and tries to destabilise other countries across Europe. 

We've always been willing to fight and die for democracy. Don't see a reason to stop now. 

Edit: And I'm glad that our PM agrees

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gxgxl3grgo

 

It wouldn’t be a Labour government if they weren’t sending their lads and lasses off to war. 

Edited February 16, 2025 by royal white

[wanderer1984]

2 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Possibly displaying a bit too much knowledge and logic there mate. You'll have a few brains hurting with this post.

We'll see what happens mate. We can guess and I'm happy with my judgement ... But nobody on here knows what the outcome will be.

 

 

[bolty58]

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

It wouldn’t be a Labour government if they weren’t sending their lads and lasses of to war. 

I would have given up at "I don't see anything positive..........."

If he doesn't see anything positive in dialogue in an attempt to stop deaths, destruction and suffering then he sees fuck all.

The amount of resources being put into these wars which could be put to far better use.

What do these ferals talk about these days when they are passing around the ganja pipe? It used to be "Peace, man".

[royal white]

Just now, bolty58 said:

I would have given up at "I don't see anything positive..........."

If he doesn't see anything positive in dialogue in an attempt to stop deaths, destruction and suffering then he sees fuck all.

The amount of resources being put into these wars which could be put to far better use.

What do these ferals talk about these days when they are passing around the ganja pipe? It used to be "Peace, man".

It’s madness. Many would be happy to see someone/anyone  try and get some kind of stability to 2 warring countries thousands of miles away. 
 

Others ……let’s get Brit boots on the ground! It’s like they’re totally oblivious to what’s happened over the past few decades. 

[bolty58]

1 minute ago, wanderer1984 said:

We'll see what happens mate. We can guess and I'm happy with my judgement ... But nobody on here knows what the outcome will be.

 

 

Correct but we can speculate. My suspicion is that Russia will keep land which was heavily ethnically Russian before all this began; Ukraine will not be in the EU; Ukraine will not join NATO; Ukraine will receive plenty of financial sweeteners for agreeing; death and destruction will cease.

The lefty warmongers on here will not like this.

[Bertie]

“Lefty warmongers” 😂😂.  Constant projection eh?! Try something different one day please.

Don’t think it’s left v right, and don’t think it’s war v peace.

I think most reasonable folk of any political persuasion want peace as soon as possible. I do (and as I’ve told you before I’m a right wing brexiteer). Most reasonable folk though don’t want peace at any price, and don’t want the US going rogue in both unilaterally appeasing the aggressor and negotiating without the consent of the sovereign nation.  Seems pretty reasonable to me and certainly not a left v right thing. Perhaps more right v wrong?

Edited February 17, 2025 by Bertie

[London Wanderer]

There is nothing positive in undermining Ukraine & Europe.

 It’s fairly split in Eastern Ukraine on being part of Russia. And that sentiment has drifted since the war.

 Putin chose to achieve his goal with bombs , death & destruction. It’s for the people of Eastern Ukraine to decide fairly, not the US & Putin. 
 

Fair elections as part of the peace process.

 This won’t stop with Ukraine. 

[Spider]

9 hours ago, bolty58 said:

I would have given up at "I don't see anything positive..........."

If he doesn't see anything positive in dialogue in an attempt to stop deaths, destruction and suffering then he sees fuck all.

The amount of resources being put into these wars which could be put to far better use.

What do these ferals talk about these days when they are passing around the ganja pipe? It used to be "Peace, man".

Lots of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the republic.

I notice that we didn’t back down on that.

anyone fancy explaining the difference?

[gonzo]

Reckon UK, Europe and Ukraine could have it with Russia without the yanks? 

[Farrelli]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Reckon UK, Europe and Ukraine could have it with Russia without the yanks? 

Just what Putin is hoping to do, split NATO. Trump playing right into his hands.

[Sweep]

11 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Correct but we can speculate. My suspicion is that Russia will keep land which was heavily ethnically Russian before all this began; Ukraine will not be in the EU; Ukraine will not join NATO; Ukraine will receive plenty of financial sweeteners for agreeing; death and destruction will cease.

The lefty warmongers on here will not like this.

I think it'll play out pretty much as you've said, and people have been saying for ages that Trump will sugest that Putin can keep what he's gained thus far - not that it makes it right. Even if some of the land that Russia  has gained is/was heavily ethnically Russian, it's not theirs to take. Those people, living there, who would prefer to be under Russian rule, can simply just move to Russia.

In all this lot, I'm sure China are keeping a keen eye on how it plays out, as it may well decide their strategy with regards to Taiwan. And let's be honest, Russia rolling into Ukraine is fuck all, in reality to the shit storm that China rolling into Taiwan would cause

 

[Dimron]

12 hours ago, bolty58 said:

FFS give over. Anyone with a scintilla of sense knows that Afghans are incorrigible and best left to it. You are pissing in the wind trying to negotiate with them.

Pointless even getting involved. Wall the fuckers in and leave them to it would be the best policy..

I've been thinking about things again.

I believe I am at odds with some of the posters because I do not consider the Black Sea to be part of Europe, I don't think of the Baltic area as European neither... Europe extends as far as the Western Adriatic in my head and as you say, leave them to it... we are dabbling in politics and cultures alien to us 

[Dimron]

12 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

 

I don't see anything positive in the way Trump is approaching this. I'd love to be wrong and see him pull off a master stroke.. but I very much doubt it. 

We'll look back and regret not doing more in my opinion. 

Anyone who thinks Putin will just stop at Ukraine isn't seeing the bigger picture.

Meddling in the current German election, the Georgian election. Don't be surprised if he goes for Moldova and tries to destabilise other countries across Europe. 

We've always been willing to fight and die for democracy. Don't see a reason to stop now. 

Edit: And I'm glad that our PM agrees

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gxgxl3grgo

 

I have no problem with us being involved in a peacekeeping force but not a fighting army.

But... the ones with the most to lose should take the strain... Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and so on.

Why are we still trying to be some sort of moral compass for Europe? We've jumped that ship!

[Dimron]

12 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I think it'll play out pretty much as you've said, and people have been saying for ages that Trump will sugest that Putin can keep what he's gained thus far - not that it makes it right. Even if some of the land that Russia  has gained is/was heavily ethnically Russian, it's not theirs to take. Those people, living there, who would prefer to be under Russian rule, can simply just move to Russia.

In all this lot, I'm sure China are keeping a keen eye on how it plays out, as it may well decide their strategy with regards to Taiwan. And let's be honest, Russia rolling into Ukraine is fuck all, in reality to the shit storm that China rolling into Taiwan would cause

 

Russia will retain Eastern Ukraine and Crimea as it needs access to its Black Sea Fleet.

[Dimron]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Reckon UK, Europe and Ukraine could have it with Russia without the yanks? 

That lot will play 5 at the back and we all know who'll be the lone striker up front don't we?

We went into Europe with the French in 1939, a fat lot of good that did!

[gonzo]

1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

Just what Putin is hoping to do, split NATO. Trump playing right into his hands.

Yep. It's almost as if they wanted Brexit and Trump in the first place

[London Wanderer]

21 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I have no problem with us being involved in a peacekeeping force but not a fighting army.

But... the ones with the most to lose should take the strain... Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and so on.

Why are we still trying to be some sort of moral compass for Europe? We've jumped that ship!

Have we? Who said that?
 

We are involved because we value democracy & freedom. It’s why we wear the poppies every November & remember the sacrifice.

We also live in a global world where our economy & long term stability is reliant on a strong & stable Europe. Russia‘a invasion caused economic carnage.

It’s completely deluded to suggest this only concerns Eastern Europe. Russia recently paid people to cause criminal damage across Germany to influence the upcoming elections. They have illegally interfered with our elections.

They have caused chaos in the Georgian elections. Who’s to say they will stop with the invasion of Ukraine? 
 

They are a threat to democracy & that can’t be ignored. Why should Ukraine accept any huge loss of land & resources taken by force?

[Zico]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Reckon UK, Europe and Ukraine could have it with Russia without the yanks? 

not if he gets China on board

[Zico]

50 minutes ago, Dimron said:

I've been thinking about things again.

I believe I am at odds with some of the posters because I do not consider the Black Sea to be part of Europe, I don't think of the Baltic area as European neither... Europe extends as far as the Western Adriatic in my head and as you say, leave them to it... we are dabbling in politics and cultures alien to us 

except the baltics, Romania and Bulgaria are in the EU so they might consider themselves European

[Farrelli]

37 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Yep. It's almost as if they wanted Brexit and Trump in the first place

#visionaries 

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Yep. It's almost as if they wanted Brexit and Trump in the first place

Pre fucking cisely! 

[kent_white]

13 hours ago, royal white said:

It wouldn’t be a Labour government if they weren’t sending their lads and lasses off to war. 

Come on mate! 

Let's not paint everything as Labour vs Conservatives - there's too much at stake here to turn this into another polarising us vs them debate. I'm so tired of those arguments. 

What we can probably all agree on is that we want peace in Ukraine. All we differ on is on the best way to achieve it. 

I'd support British troops on the ground as part of a peacekeeping mission. Albeit that's very easy for me to say as it's unlikely I'd be ever sent there. 

What's your view as ex forces?

[royal white]

4 hours ago, Spider said:

Lots of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the republic.

I notice that we didn’t back down on that.

anyone fancy explaining the difference?

They reacted to peace talks…..chaired by the yanks. 

[Spider]

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

They reacted to peace talks…..chaired by the yanks. 

But we’ve (the UK) held the territory?

Ultimately, we winned bigly?