Traf Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, gonzo said: How was the judge supposed to know he was going to murder someone? Exactly. And it wasn't a pre-meditated murder. It was a robbery that went wrong as he tried to rob a drug dealer. I'm not saying that's OK either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globaldiver Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 25 minutes ago, mickbrown said: So be the law is only correct if it agrees with you? No idea what you mean Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, globaldiver said: No idea what you mean Mick Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 1, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, gonzo said: How was the judge supposed to know he was going to murder someone? He can't. That said, perhaps there were reasonable grounds that these folk were to be deported initially, and were these taken into account when the judge deliberated? I've heard that there were some concerns about this lot being deported as a bloc, but each will have had their case heard as individuals initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 44 minutes ago, gonzo said: How was the judge supposed to know he was going to murder someone? Are you saying criminals that can be deported should only be deported if they commit murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, royal white said: Are you saying criminals that can be deported should only be deported if they commit murder? Didnt realise he was a criminal before. What did he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Didnt realise he was a criminal before. What did he do? 18 previous convictions, drugs, knives firearms etc, already served time. It was only a matter of time before he was in trouble again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 hours ago, bolty58 said: Apparently the Windrush scandal played a large part in swaying the judge. That and an 'intervention' by Naomi Campbell and 67 Labour MP's. The last sentence clarifies what is wrong with these judges and do gooders. After the 'intervention' as you call it, a cross-party letter was the final straw that stopped the deportation flights. It's not all on the Left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, royal white said: 18 previous convictions, drugs, knives firearms etc, already served time. It was only a matter of time before he was in trouble again. That's true, one could argue he was never really out of trouble. The murder was basically the result of him 'winning' a knife fight. Not a great pic, but he's the one on the right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Traf said: That's true, one could argue he was never really out of trouble. The murder was basically the result of him 'winning' a knife fight. Not a great pic, but he's the one on the right... Apparently it would be against his human rights to be separated from his family. His family which included his son who was also part of the murder and also sentenced to life. Why on earth would anybody want these type of people to remain in the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) I wonder how many folk express outrage at the human rights lawyers stopping deportation flights, yet continue to dabble in cocaine at the weekends? Class A drug use is at record levels in football matches; it has also been found to be rife in the toilets at Westminster and media offices alike. Those buying it are fuelling murders like this far more than a human rights lawyer ffs. None of the media report on how old this scumbag was when he came here. I don't know either, but if it's anything like others on the flight then he came when Caribbean folk were invited and documents weren't required. He now had a family. So of course all of this is going to complicate his deportation and others on that flight. We don't solve the drug crisis and violent crime by shipping Caribbean folk who came here as children back to their country of birth. If only it were that simple. Edited March 1, 2023 by London Wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 1, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, royal white said: Apparently it would be against his human rights to be separated from his family. His family which included his son who was also part of the murder and also sentenced to life. Why on earth would anybody want these type of people to remain in the country? Having had a quick browse through the letter, it seems the mps were "concerned" by the events following the Windrush deportations which, whilst laudable in a way, nevertheless raises the question of how many of those mps had actually studied and understood the cases of these individuals, who weren't connected to that previous event, and were being deported on their own merits? Mps of all colours do a lot of good work helping constituents with issues, and this involves getting a deep understanding of the complexities of each case. Surely a pre-requisite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, royal white said: Apparently it would be against his human rights to be separated from his family. His family which included his son who was also part of the murder and also sentenced to life. Why on earth would anybody want these type of people to remain in the country? Ah, yes, but that's hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 1, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, London Wanderer said: I wonder how many folk express outrage at the human rights lawyers, yet continue to dabble in cocaine at the weekends? Class A drug use is at record levels in football matches; it has also been found to be rife in the toilets at Westminster and media offices alike. Those buying it are fuelling murders like this far more than a human rights lawyer ffs. None of the media report on how old this scumbag was when he came here. I don't know either, but if it's anything like others on the flight then he came when Caribbean folk were invited and documents weren't required. He now had a family. So of course all of this is going to complicate his deportation and others on that flight. We don't solve the drug crisis and violent crime by shipping Caribbean folk who came here as children back their country of birth. If only it were that simple. That's right. Irrespective of background, just shoot the cunts instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: I wonder how many folk express outrage at the human rights lawyers stopping deportation flights, yet continue to dabble in cocaine at the weekends? Class A drug use is at record levels in football matches; it has also been found to be rife in the toilets at Westminster and media offices alike. Those buying it are fuelling murders like this far more than a human rights lawyer ffs. None of the media report on how old this scumbag was when he came here. I don't know either, but if it's anything like others on the flight then he came when Caribbean folk were invited and documents weren't required. He now had a family. So of course all of this is going to complicate his deportation and others on that flight. We don't solve the drug crisis and violent crime by shipping Caribbean folk who came here as children back to their country of birth. If only it were that simple. It’s not just Caribbean folk who are responsible for the drug crisis and violent crime. Many nationalities get deported every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 35 minutes ago, Traf said: After the 'intervention' as you call it, a cross-party letter was the final straw that stopped the deportation flights. It's not all on the Left. Aye. The 67 Labour MPs and Naomi Campbell is just so Daily Mail readers can laminate it and have a angry, confused wank over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazBob Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, Traf said: That's true, one could argue he was never really out of trouble. The murder was basically the result of him 'winning' a knife fight. Not a great pic, but he's the one on the right... Meh, if he's only murdering someone who is trying to murder him then I'm not arsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, royal white said: It’s not just Caribbean folk who are responsible for the drug crisis and violent crime. Many nationalities get deported every year. Aye. I didn't say it was just Caribbean folk. The difference here is that many of these came as children, were invited and have families. That's a very different situation to an illegal immigrant who's arrived a couple of years ago purely to become involved in crime. So when you put the dramatised Express and Sun articles (accusing lawyers of having blood on their hands) to one side, is there not a debate to be had about whether they should be dealt with by our justice system? And what if that flight had gone ahead - or similar ones go ahead in the future. Will that make our streets safer? It's a globalised world - as is the drug crisis. No doubt in my mind that this person would have been involved in crime abroad that only fuels more violent crime in Britain. They're now in prison. Let's hope they do serve life. And whilst the crisis is as big and violent as it is. Let's also make sure the middle class cocaine dabblers and football casuals get their fair dose of punishment for possession. Rather than a slap on the wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: Aye. I didn't say it was just Caribbean folk. The difference here is that many of these came as children, were invited and have families. That's a very different situation to an illegal immigrant who's arrived a couple of years ago purely to become involved in crime. So when you put the dramatised Express and Sun articles (accusing lawyers of having blood on their hands) to one side, is there not a debate to be had about whether they should be dealt with by our justice system? And what if that flight had gone ahead - or similar ones go ahead in the future. Will that make our streets safer? It's a globalised world - as is the drug crisis. No doubt in my mind that this person would have been involved in crime abroad that only fuels more violent crime in Britain. They're now in prison. Let's hope they do serve life. And whilst the crisis is as big and violent as it is. Let's also make sure the middle class cocaine dabblers and football casuals get their fair dose of punishment for possession. Rather than a slap on the wrist. Woah woah woah, let's not go crazy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: Aye. I didn't say it was just Caribbean folk. The difference here is that many of these came as children, were invited and have families. That's a very different situation to an illegal immigrant who's arrived a couple of years ago purely to become involved in crime. So when you put the dramatised Express and Sun articles (accusing lawyers of having blood on their hands) to one side, is there not a debate to be had about whether they should be dealt with by our justice system? And what if that flight had gone ahead - or similar ones go ahead in the future. Will that make our streets safer? It's a globalised world - as is the drug crisis. No doubt in my mind that this person would have been involved in crime abroad that only fuels more violent crime in Britain. They're now in prison. Let's hope they do serve life. And whilst the crisis is as big and violent as it is. Let's also make sure the middle class cocaine dabblers and football casuals get their fair dose of punishment for possession. Rather than a slap on the wrist. Well if that flight had gone ahead there’s a good chance the dead person wouldn’t be a dead person. If they came as children they should have a better understanding of our system. If you fuck up you go back to where you came from, whether that be the Caribbean (through windrush), escaping war zones around the world, arriving here as an asylum seeker etc. What would suggest as a suitable punishment for someone dabbling in cocaine, Or any drugs for that matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Are we saying this guy should have been deported because he was a criminal ? But when deportation came up it was rejected by the court ? So the issue is the rules as it in various areas relating to immigration. The Tories have had 12 years to sort this out and have failed miserably, more bothered about headlines than details and actions as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted March 1, 2023 Site Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2023 This is the latest I can find from the government website, Oct 4th 2022: To date this year, the UK has removed 8,175 people via enforced, voluntary and other return types, including 2,250 foreign national offenders. So we seem to remove/deport towards 10k a year. The fact one successfully appealed against deportation but went on to commit more crimes isn't necessarily proof that the process isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 What are folk getting into a lather about now that everyone understands that Brexit was a load of old bollocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, royal white said: Well if that flight had gone ahead there’s a good chance the dead person wouldn’t be a dead person. If they came as children they should have a better understanding of our system. If you fuck up you go back to where you came from, whether that be the Caribbean (through windrush), escaping war zones around the world, arriving here as an asylum seeker etc. What would suggest as a suitable punishment for someone dabbling in cocaine, Or any drugs for that matter? The fight was fuelled by drug money and crime, on both sides. Whether it was here, or in Jamaica, someone was being affected sooner or later. Shipping them off to the Caribbean solves very little in what is a complex issue. It's mad how something so complex can be portrayed as 'lawyers and liberal do-gooders are responsible'. And people lap it all up. That's a difficult question. Brings the whole debate around legalising drugs into question. IMO if you're dabbling in the stuff, whilst violent crime is in such a dire state, then you're a huge part of the problem. I'd have very hefty fines for possession that goes into rehabilitation and early prevention. I'd also have drug and violent crime awareness courses for anyone found in possession to allow them understand just how much fire their fuelling. Edited March 1, 2023 by London Wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Make drugs legal and taxable. Easy innit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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