Derby County (A)

[Steejay]

8 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

In Derby's last 12 home games, the only teams that haven't scored against them are Stevenage, Port Vale and us.  I find it strange that folk are happy with today's performance as if we were just unlucky, 1 goal would have given us a point as Derby didn't have 2 goals in them, but it was another punchless away game against a top 8 team.  And repeat.

Can’t believe that I’m agreeing with you.

But, so spot on.

[Walkden White]

Just watched the EFL highlights of the game and it was mentioned that Paul Warne has got promotion out of this league every full season he has managed (3 times I believe). That's some record.

[Jol_BWFC]

18 hours ago, Burndens Bogs said:

Maghoma just stood & watched his man head the ball in from the corner.

 

18 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

He’s done that before…

You’re persistent, I’ll give you that. Unfortunately, you are also just making stuff up.

[Apologies for picture quality - iPhone wanker]. Circled red - the goal scorer, who makes a run from an unmarked position at the penalty spot.

Circled blue, Maghoma, who remained next to the guy he was actually marking (who didn’t score). But let’s blame Maghoma anyway.

 

 

 

Edited March 17 by Jol_BWFC
Updated to add pic

[Jol_BWFC]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I struggle with this line of thinking. We've won one out of six against the four other best teams in the division this year. Last year we won one out of eight against the top four. The year before it was zero out of eight.

Three seasons. 22 games against the best sides. Two wins, both of which saw the opposition receive a red card in the first half.

I appreciate that teams in the Championship might play a different style to the top teams in L1, but equally we're not going to find Cambridge or Cheltenham up there either. Championship sides will be just as physical as Derby/Barnsley etc. but far better technically too.

You just need to look at our away record this season against the better teams to see where our problems lie. Taking the best “other” 10 teams in this league ie 1st (Pompey) to 11th (Wigan). The records of the top 3 are:

Pompey - P8, W4, D4, L0. Points: 16

Derby - P9, W5, D1, L3. Points: 16

Bolton - P8, W1, D2, L5. Points: 5
 

That’s just not good enough.

Our home record helps claw back some points, but not nearly enough.

Edited March 17 by Jol_BWFC

[newton_white]

6 hours ago, L/H White said:

happy to stay in league 1 & constantly lose the big games?

What absurd thing to say. I, like any supporter want promotion and Evatt is improving us year on year, anyone that can’t see that needs a psychologist appointment asap, but to say we constantly lose big games is an effort to avoid the facts. Which only suggests a deep rooted subconscious hatred of the manager and his methods of setting up a team to play ( although I suspect in many cases it’s simply a lack  of understanding of the game)

[Lostock Whites]

Keep hearing Evatt saying great performance great performance, was just unlucky etc. 

Okay, sometimes we cannot score all the time in these difficult away games, but where is the acknowledgement of the goal conceded? None!

I believe in Evatts style, but until he takes account on the training field and tactically regarding set pieces, then we will never get out of this godforsaken league. Can have all the dominance and possession, but we have also got to be solid defensively.

Wigan and Derby today were incredibly similar. But imo, a promotion team if they can't find the winner, at the very least get 2 points from those games and don't concede such soft goals.

Ironically the Pompey and Derby away games were very similar to an extent. We had CRITICAL chances to score in both games to go ahead, we didn't, and then we conceded the opening goal from a poor corner. This isn't a coincidence, it's a pattern.

Things can change and I'm not saying give up yet and in the play offs who knows what can happen. But after nearly 40 games we all know that this team has a soft underbelly in the big moments, and that's happened to often I'm afraid this season.

Our away form is a joke, our away form at top sides is abysmal. We can be prime Barcelona all we want at home. But unless we change that, we won't get out of this league.

Derby today has their free agent striker subbed off, have an old team and down to the bare bones, yet they still kept it tight and found a winner. That's the difference there.

Like many Wanderers fans today, I'm very frustrated, more so because we ARE a damn good team. But at the end of the day we are just not ruthless enough in both boxes. In most games we should have scored more than we did and have made so many defensive errors.

I've personally resigned to us being in the play offs now. It's certainly not over, we're still just 4 points of Derby, who have to go to Pompey, but it's the hope that kills you. 

Evatt says we can still go on a run of 7 consecutive wins. Unfortunately to me, he now just sounds desperate, as much as I wish I could have the same belief, I just don't believe in this current team to do that, for the reasons provided above, we are just not good enough in both boxes. 

Please prove me wrong.

Edited March 17 by Lostock Whites

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I struggle with this line of thinking. We've won one out of six against the four other best teams in the division this year. Last year we won one out of eight against the top four. The year before it was zero out of eight.

Three seasons. 22 games against the best sides. Two wins, both of which saw the opposition receive a red card in the first half.

I appreciate that teams in the Championship might play a different style to the top teams in L1, but equally we're not going to find Cambridge or Cheltenham up there either. Championship sides will be just as physical as Derby/Barnsley etc. but far better technically too.

It’s entirely based on style of play. Especially Ipswich vs Sheff Weds this season. Appreciate it isn’t based on much logic but surely most can see it that way? Derby might go up but they’ll get twatted every week. We go up and we’ve got half a chance like Ipswich have done well. Get some clogger to get us over the line then Evatt can take over again when we need to be better with everything else.

That said, those raising stats can’t life but the all the same they (not necessarily yourself) definitely aren’t waiting for an Aldi pizza to cook after being on the piss for 14 hours and encountering @leighwhites not once but twice since getting back. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, newton_white said:

What absurd thing to say. I, like any supporter want promotion and Evatt is improving us year on year, anyone that can’t see that needs a psychologist appointment asap, but to say we constantly lose big games is an effort to avoid the facts. Which only suggests a deep rooted subconscious hatred of the manager and his methods of setting up a team to play ( although I suspect in many cases it’s simply a lack  of understanding of the game)

👀

[captainmed]

5 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

You just need to look at our away record this season against the better teams to see where our problems lie. Taking the best “other” 10 teams in this league ie 1st (Pompey) to 11th (Wigan). The records of the top 3 are:

Pompey - P8, W4, D4, L0. Points: 16

Derby - P9, W5, D1, L3. Points: 16

Bolton - P8, W1, D2, L5. Points: 5
 

That’s just not good enough.

Our home record helps claw back some points, but not nearly enough.

Yes not very good for a team that is supposedly the best on the division.

We’re not of course, but we’re even further behind in mental strength.

Winners find a way, just like Derby did, with 3 injuries during the game too. 

Had that happened to us, it would have been our excuse to lose. 

If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

Edited March 17 by captainmed

[radcliffe white]

Will derby drop points yes I’m sure they will they have a couple of tricky fixtures however it means we have no room for slip ups and I’m guessing requires winning all our remaining fixtures

the next time we play derby will most likely will be 7 points clear

save your cash for the play offs 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

I've been looking at it long term for weeks, haven't thought we had enough for autos so how would we get through play offs. Stating the obvious I suppose but its all about finding a way to do better in the two leg semi than last year then, whoever we play in the final, at Wembley, I'd fancy us

I was doing the same last night, first time I’ve genuinely thought that it will end in the play offs, despite our record over the last 10 games I still thought we could find a way to do it - that hope’s gone now though.

Finishing 3rd or 4th is critical for me. Completely agree that a one-off game at Wembley id fancy us against any of the other teams in the mix but in the semis I think we have to be playing at home 2nd leg. I think we’d do them all over 2 legs (Barnsley would be toughest) but having to go away in the second leg would make me far less confidence.

Pick up a bit of form for the last few games, get Baxter and Charles back, have a home 2nd leg and then play our beautiful Brazil like flowing football on a sunny day in Wembley to destroy whoever we face. They do say that going up through the play offs is the best way to do it!

[captainmed]

1 hour ago, radcliffe white said:

save your cash for the play offs 

Bet you’re not saving yours though 😆

You are right though, 3 long expensive trips to come. 

I’m personally done with aways until the play-offs. 

[L/H White]

7 hours ago, newton_white said:

What absurd thing to say. I, like any supporter want promotion and Evatt is improving us year on year, anyone that can’t see that needs a psychologist appointment asap, but to say we constantly lose big games is an effort to avoid the facts. Which only suggests a deep rooted subconscious hatred of the manager and his methods of setting up a team to play ( although I suspect in many cases it’s simply a lack  of understanding of the game)

Utter dribble 

[woolli]

11 hours ago, captainmed said:

12games -17 points.

Won only 4 of those.

1 away win in SEVEN.

Only TWO clean sheets in those 12.

We have imploded when it matters.

Those are the harsh facts, dress it up however you want.

But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Very plain, simple, truthful facts.

[radcliffe white]

12 minutes ago, woolli said:

Very plain, simple, truthful facts.

But we won all them games on possession stats

Edited March 17 by radcliffe white

[Rizlar]

8 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

But we all them games on possession stats

Goals win games possession stats don’t, play off it is no way is Warne messing this up and watch out for Lincoln they have hit form at the right time scoring for fun whereas we are limping into the play offs ! 

[radcliffe white]

7 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

Goals win games possession stats don’t, play off it is no way is Warne messing this up and watch out for Lincoln they have hit form at the right time scoring for fun whereas we are limping into the play offs ! 

That last play off spot looks an interesting finish, still think Blackpool might sneak it 

[Rizlar]

1 minute ago, radcliffe white said:

That last play off spot looks an interesting finish, still think Blackpool might sneak it 

Possibly but Lincoln have really hit form and Stevenage and Oxford still in it if we finish 3rd which I am not confident about I really would not want Blackpool 

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

Possibly but Lincoln have really hit form and Stevenage and Oxford still in it if we finish 3rd which I am not confident about I really would not want Blackpool 

My thoughts exactly, regardless of the fact Lincoln are in a bit of form, we’d do them over two legs and same with Oxford (wouldn’t fear either of the away legs) - Blackpool on the other hand…

[Ani]

7 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

It’s entirely based on style of play. Especially Ipswich vs Sheff Weds this season. Appreciate it isn’t based on much logic but surely most can see it that way? Derby might go up but they’ll get twatted every week. We go up and we’ve got half a chance like Ipswich have done well. Get some clogger to get us over the line then Evatt can take over again when we need to be better with everything else.

That said, those raising stats can’t life but the all the same they (not necessarily yourself) definitely aren’t waiting for an Aldi pizza to cook after being on the piss for 14 hours and encountering @leighwhites not once but twice since getting back. 

There is no reason to have a style of play that you think will be suited to a higher division if the same style can not get you out of this one or you can not adapt the style.

Yesterday was frustrating as we will really should be looking up to win the league not checking how far ahead of 7th we are. But the same short fallings we have seen at Northampton, Wigan, Blackpool, Exeter and Orient were there again. Plenty of possession and missing the odd occasional chance we create. So yesterday is another noble failure. 
 

The manager will come out with another rallying call when once again the supporters have turned out in their thousands. Collins might turn out to be a great player, he certainly shows some glimpses but we needed to sign someone who could make an immediate impact, Evatts comments a couple of weeks ago made it clear this was not the plan, so we decide to spend a massive amount on a player who will be great next year you better make sure you get to the next level anyhow. 

Last season the top 3 ended with nearly 300 points, the next 5 in the league were the current top 5, so no relegated or promoted team involved, looking at the tables 2 'decent' teams and Rotherham who are usually good enough at this level come down, Stockport and Wrexham with money and impetus coming up, it is likely to a be a tougher league with I hate to say it Blackpool and Wigan settled and even Reading with new owners potentially improving. 
 

If we do not go up the season has to be classed as a failure IMO, the manager won't be sacked but will be interesting if anyone comes in for our players - Santos, Sheehan, Baxter and Thomason could all attract attention, loan players going back and it could be busy close season. 
 

We could still well  go up but fuck me we make it a lot harder than we should. 

[Rizlar]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My thoughts exactly, regardless of the fact Lincoln are in a bit of form, we’d do them over two legs and same with Oxford (wouldn’t fear either of the away legs) - Blackpool on the other hand…

Same here .

[Rizlar]

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

There is no reason to have a style of play that you think will be suited to a higher division if the same style can not get you out of this one or you can not adapt the style.

Yesterday was frustrating as we will really should be looking up to win the league not checking how far ahead of 7th we are. But the same short fallings we have seen at Northampton, Wigan, Blackpool, Exeter and Orient were there again. Plenty of possession and missing the odd occasional chance we create. So yesterday is another noble failure. 
 

The manager will come out with another rallying call when once again the supporters have turned out in their thousands. Collins might turn out to be a great player, he certainly shows some glimpses but we needed to sign someone who could make an immediate impact, Evatts comments a couple of weeks ago made it clear this was not the plan, so we decide to spend a massive amount on a player who will be great next year you better make sure you get to the next level anyhow. 

Last season the top 3 ended with nearly 300 points, the next 5 in the league were the current top 5, so no relegated or promoted team involved, looking at the tables 2 'decent' teams and Rotherham who are usually good enough at this level come down, Stockport and Wrexham with money and impetus coming up, it is likely to a be a tougher league with I hate to say it Blackpool and Wigan settled and even Reading with new owners potentially improving. 
 

If we do not go up the season has to be classed as a failure IMO, the manager won't be sacked but will be interesting if anyone comes in for our players - Santos, Sheehan, Baxter and Thomason could all attract attention, loan players going back and it could be busy close season. 
 

We could still well  go up but fuck me we make it a lot harder than we should. 

Spot on and if we stick with this same style of play next season it’s going to be more of the same tbh . 

[Tombwfc]

8 hours ago, newton_white said:

What absurd thing to say. I, like any supporter want promotion and Evatt is improving us year on year, anyone that can’t see that needs a psychologist appointment asap, but to say we constantly lose big games is an effort to avoid the facts. Which only suggests a deep rooted subconscious hatred of the manager and his methods of setting up a team to play ( although I suspect in many cases it’s simply a lack  of understanding of the game)

 

In our first season in L1 we finished 9th. If last year we'd finished 8th and this year 7th, I wouldn't have considered that progress just because we improved our finishing position. If Newcastle or Chelsea spend £500m in the summer, finishing a couple of places higher than they do this year isn't progress.

Last year we won a trophy but fell short in the playoffs. Were we to win nothing and fall short in the playoffs this year, that isn't good enough progress given we're another year into Evatt building the team he wants, the league is weaker and we've spent circa £1m on players.

Even Evatt's own expectations have him managing in the Premier League in three years time, so not getting us out of this league with this squad, this season, is failure.

Caveat: I like Evatt overall and we're still more than capable of getting promoted this season, so all is certainly not lost.

[Tombwfc]

7 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

It’s entirely based on style of play. Especially Ipswich vs Sheff Weds this season. Appreciate it isn’t based on much logic but surely most can see it that way? Derby might go up but they’ll get twatted every week. We go up and we’ve got half a chance like Ipswich have done well. Get some clogger to get us over the line then Evatt can take over again when we need to be better with everything else.

That said, those raising stats can’t life but the all the same they (not necessarily yourself) definitely aren’t waiting for an Aldi pizza to cook after being on the piss for 14 hours and encountering @leighwhites not once but twice since getting back. 

 

Ultimately those stats don't prove anything, although they're almost unbelievably terrible. But for every Ipswich who go up and find their style of play translates perfectly to a higher level, there's a team like Burnley who try to play the same way against the better players and get found out. So far in this division, we've seen our style of play work brilliantly against the talentless cloggers, but not against the talented ones. 

Hopefully we get the chance to find out anyway.

[woolli]

20 minutes ago, Ani said:

There is no reason to have a style of play that you think will be suited to a higher division if the same style can not get you out of this one or you can not adapt the style.

Yesterday was frustrating as we will really should be looking up to win the league not checking how far ahead of 7th we are. But the same short fallings we have seen at Northampton, Wigan, Blackpool, Exeter and Orient were there again. Plenty of possession and missing the odd occasional chance we create. So yesterday is another noble failure. 
 

The manager will come out with another rallying call when once again the supporters have turned out in their thousands. Collins might turn out to be a great player, he certainly shows some glimpses but we needed to sign someone who could make an immediate impact, Evatts comments a couple of weeks ago made it clear this was not the plan, so we decide to spend a massive amount on a player who will be great next year you better make sure you get to the next level anyhow. 

Last season the top 3 ended with nearly 300 points, the next 5 in the league were the current top 5, so no relegated or promoted team involved, looking at the tables 2 'decent' teams and Rotherham who are usually good enough at this level come down, Stockport and Wrexham with money and impetus coming up, it is likely to a be a tougher league with I hate to say it Blackpool and Wigan settled and even Reading with new owners potentially improving. 
 

If we do not go up the season has to be classed as a failure IMO, the manager won't be sacked but will be interesting if anyone comes in for our players - Santos, Sheehan, Baxter and Thomason could all attract attention, loan players going back and it could be busy close season. 
 

We could still well  go up but fuck me we make it a lot harder than we should. 

Great post. I still think its a " system" issue in this league. Would much prefer dedicated full backs and dedicated winger/wingers, who with regards to full backs, who can actually tackle, and wingers, who can actually take players on and get decent crosses in. Our " wing" backs are neither, they aint good enough defensively, and are not good enough to be wingers. I like Ogbeta, but his crossing, in general was woeful yesterday, with the exception of Bods chance. Back to basics for me, but we all know Evatt wont change.