Derby County (A)

[gonzo]

12 minutes ago, tomski said:

Well summarised.

I think we only win games by having better players.

Its very rare we win a game by tactically outwitting anyone, say like Maloney did to us.

Jerome was coming on at that minute yesterday whether it was 3-0, 0-3 or 0-0. The fact we have 2 weeks off would not even have remotely played a part.

No calling anything or anyone as we’ve 7 or (now hopefully) 10 big games left. 
 

Rest up and pick Stevenage off and keep going to the end. 

Agree with all of that.

I even said to kids on 70 mins it's nearly Cameron Jerome time. 

Same subs, same impact and same like for like strategy.

Warne yesterday made 4 changes and altered their midfield to stop our flow. 

 

[Greg_BWFC]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

They are way too inconsistent at the minute. The knives are well and truly out for Critchly.

Yesterday was a shit show apparently. Infighting in stands and players getting told to fuck off at full time.

Hope and pray its not them.

Be horrible if they sneak in mate because they'll win it.

They always do.

[Johnnyrotten]

11 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

 

You’re persistent, I’ll give you that. Unfortunately, you are also just making stuff up.

[Apologies for picture quality - iPhone wanker]. Circled red - the goal scorer, who makes a run from an unmarked position at the penalty spot.

Circled blue, Maghoma, who remained next to the guy he was actually marking (who didn’t score). But let’s blame Maghoma anyway.

 

 

 

IEs tactic of not marking at corners, especially when we bring 11 back, is horrendous.  Its not unlucky, its just not picking up players who can head a ball towards goal from 8 yards.  Are we allowed to comment on that as mere fans or do we have to have professional qualifications before we can suggest we might just compete for a header in our own box?

[Greg_BWFC]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

There is no reason to have a style of play that you think will be suited to a higher division if the same style can not get you out of this one or you can not adapt the style.

Yesterday was frustrating as we will really should be looking up to win the league not checking how far ahead of 7th we are. But the same short fallings we have seen at Northampton, Wigan, Blackpool, Exeter and Orient were there again. Plenty of possession and missing the odd occasional chance we create. So yesterday is another noble failure. 
 

The manager will come out with another rallying call when once again the supporters have turned out in their thousands. Collins might turn out to be a great player, he certainly shows some glimpses but we needed to sign someone who could make an immediate impact, Evatts comments a couple of weeks ago made it clear this was not the plan, so we decide to spend a massive amount on a player who will be great next year you better make sure you get to the next level anyhow. 

Last season the top 3 ended with nearly 300 points, the next 5 in the league were the current top 5, so no relegated or promoted team involved, looking at the tables 2 'decent' teams and Rotherham who are usually good enough at this level come down, Stockport and Wrexham with money and impetus coming up, it is likely to a be a tougher league with I hate to say it Blackpool and Wigan settled and even Reading with new owners potentially improving. 
 

If we do not go up the season has to be classed as a failure IMO, the manager won't be sacked but will be interesting if anyone comes in for our players - Santos, Sheehan, Baxter and Thomason could all attract attention, loan players going back and it could be busy close season. 
 

We could still well  go up but fuck me we make it a lot harder than we should. 

Good post this.

I'd go further and say if we don't go up this season, with the scenario you outline we could be looking more towards the bottom 4 than top 2.

(I don't think we'd get relegated but I think we may be in for a settled stay in division 3.)

Vital we get up somehow this season.

[Johnnyrotten]

11 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said:

You just need to look at our away record this season against the better teams to see where our problems lie. Taking the best “other” 10 teams in this league ie 1st (Pompey) to 11th (Wigan). The records of the top 3 are:

Pompey - P8, W4, D4, L0. Points: 16

Derby - P9, W5, D1, L3. Points: 16

Bolton - P8, W1, D2, L5. Points: 5
 

That’s just not good enough.

Our home record helps claw back some points, but not nearly enough.

Our one win was against 10 men (Lincoln) and they were in the middle of a run of 9 games without a win, they don't even register as one of our "tough" games.

We've won 2 away games against the current top 15 (Wycombe being the other).

[Johnnyrotten]

10 hours ago, Lostock Whites said:

Keep hearing Evatt saying great performance great performance, was just unlucky etc. 

Okay, sometimes we cannot score all the time in these difficult away games, but where is the acknowledgement of the goal conceded? None!

I believe in Evatts style, but until he takes account on the training field and tactically regarding set pieces, then we will never get out of this godforsaken league. Can have all the dominance and possession, but we have also got to be solid defensively.

Wigan and Derby today were incredibly similar. But imo, a promotion team if they can't find the winner, at the very least get 2 points from those games and don't concede such soft goals.

Ironically the Pompey and Derby away games were very similar to an extent. We had CRITICAL chances to score in both games to go ahead, we didn't, and then we conceded the opening goal from a poor corner. This isn't a coincidence, it's a pattern.

Things can change and I'm not saying give up yet and in the play offs who knows what can happen. But after nearly 40 games we all know that this team has a soft underbelly in the big moments, and that's happened to often I'm afraid this season.

Our away form is a joke, our away form at top sides is abysmal. We can be prime Barcelona all we want at home. But unless we change that, we won't get out of this league.

Derby today has their free agent striker subbed off, have an old team and down to the bare bones, yet they still kept it tight and found a winner. That's the difference there.

Like many Wanderers fans today, I'm very frustrated, more so because we ARE a damn good team. But at the end of the day we are just not ruthless enough in both boxes. In most games we should have scored more than we did and have made so many defensive errors.

I've personally resigned to us being in the play offs now. It's certainly not over, we're still just 4 points of Derby, who have to go to Pompey, but it's the hope that kills you. 

Evatt says we can still go on a run of 7 consecutive wins. Unfortunately to me, he now just sounds desperate, as much as I wish I could have the same belief, I just don't believe in this current team to do that, for the reasons provided above, we are just not good enough in both boxes. 

Please prove me wrong.

Great post.  We're great to watch at home and I enjoy going to the games.  But as you say there's enjoying the football against the lesser teams, and there's being successful, and the two are very different.  I'd hate to watch Derby every week, its awful, but they will get promoted simply because they are drilled to defend properly.

[Rizlar]

20 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Great post.  We're great to watch at home and I enjoy going to the games.  But as you say there's enjoying the football against the lesser teams, and there's being successful, and the two are very different.  I'd hate to watch Derby every week, it’s awful, but they will get promoted simply because they are drilled to defend properly.

Warne knows how to win and also makes important changes in a game when needed alas IE sticks to the same format most games too bloody predictable.

[Stig]

1 hour ago, barrycowdrill said:

Personally just sick to death of coming out of the games that really matter with nothing. Whether they be local games or games against rivals in the race. 
 

In any other games you go thinking ‘weve got a really good chance today’ but I never feel like that in these games. Simply, I don’t trust the players. Whether they have a mental block, fear of failure, an inability to deal with the pressure I just don’t know. But it’s happened far too often recently to feel any other way 
 

yes we get a lot of plaudits but it’s generally off the opposition managers once they’ve turned us over. But I’d like to feel every now and again just how Warne and his players will be feeling today. Satisfied the points are in the bag no matter how we got them. 
 

I’ll be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong of course but I have very little faith the manager, coaches and players can guide themselves through and manage periods of it not going all our own way over 3 games in the play offs which are probably the highest pressured games they will play in against similar levels of opposition. 
 

Yes we win more games than we lose because we’re better than the majority of other teams in the league but when the heat is on they melt. Simple as that 

Great summary. I've "liked" but not sure that's the reaction I want to add! 😂 

I'm actually more annoyed today than yesterday about the Derby game. Evatt's not learnt anything in 2 years, we're making exactly the same mistakes and then bleating about being unlucky. It's pathetic.

Load of flat track bullies the lot of them. Weak willed team with a weak willed manager. Just been to my kids game and there was stronger mentality on show.

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

According to the BBC, they had 10 shots to our 6. 3 on target each. 6 corners each. Us ahead 54-46 in the possession stakes. They had one goal to our none.

They needed a striker to get them over the line and signed an aging cast-off on a free. He's scored three goals in six matches (before getting injured yesterday... other team's also suffer injuries). We spent £750k on the L1 POTY who's got two in twelve.

Let's not become Moral Victory FC. We have plenty of advantages of our own to make the most of.

interesting those stats

as in

not sure how many shots in total they'd had prior to the goal but pretty sure it was their first one on target and they went on to hae two more

which sounds familar

so would be curious as to whether we had any more shots and any on target after they scored

(their keeper has also made two great saves to keep us out prior to their goal)

[gonzo]

50 minutes ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Be horrible if they sneak in mate because they'll win it.

They always do.

The thought of playing them makes me physically sick.

[Zico]

just looked at the table 

If it is the play offs for us, then I'd happily take the top 6 as it is right now

[Stig]

46 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

IEs tactic of not marking at corners, especially when we bring 11 back, is horrendous.  Its not unlucky, its just not picking up players who can head a ball towards goal from 8 yards.  Are we allowed to comment on that as mere fans or do we have to have professional qualifications before we can suggest we might just compete for a header in our own box?

The corner tactics are all over the place, defensively and offensively. Against Barnsley away we were putting Rico on their near post when attacking corners. Literally on the line. I assumed to try and flick it in from no range. But then the ball in never went to him.

Yesterday he was always in the middle about 12 yards out as if to attack the ball in, but we didn't win a single offensive corner header. 

Just looks so amateur 

[radcliffe white]

7 minutes ago, gonzo said:

The thought of playing them makes me physically sick.

Be a totally different encounter if the case especially off the field, restriction on tickets so no day trippers it would certainly keep the police working 

[SatanGreavsie]

7 minutes ago, Zico said:

just looked at the table 

If it is the play offs for us, then I'd happily take the top 6 as it is right now

Still think Orient could squeeze in - they're got an easy last two games and before then play Posh, Derby and Lincoln (as well as home to Exeter and Cheltenham). We could be back down that shit heap again early May.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Didn’t we stick Rico in the wall at a free kick yesterday? 

[dusan nikolic]

15 minutes ago, superjohnmcginlay said:

Didn’t we stick Rico in the wall at a free kick yesterday? 

Is that when they were unmarked in the box and headed over?

[Stig]

13 minutes ago, superjohnmcginlay said:

Didn’t we stick Rico in the wall at a free kick yesterday? 

Oh god I'd forgotten about that. That was farcical. Was that the free kick where they then had a free header in the first half? It's like they're experimenting on the fly with set pieces.

The inability to learn from this weakness leaves us so vulnerable in tight games, and it has been an issue for Evatt from day 1

[gonzo]

Thought the Derby commentators were pretty sound.

Apart from the pundit guy using nicknames.

Fucking Fozzy.

[Wanderlust]

3 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

According to the BBC, they had 10 shots to our 6. 3 on target each. 6 corners each. Us ahead 54-46 in the possession stakes. They had one goal to our none.

They needed a striker to get them over the line and signed an aging cast-off on a free. He's scored three goals in six matches (before getting injured yesterday... other team's also suffer injuries). We spent £750k on the L1 POTY who's got two in twelve.

Let's not become Moral Victory FC. We have plenty of advantages of our own to make the most of.

If you read back what I wrote it would be more Moral Draw FC in this game - which is what we deserved.

The difference was the "goal".

 

[Wanderlust]

3 hours ago, tomski said:

 

I think we only win games by having better players.

....especially playing this way.

Your comment echoes with what I was thinking for the past two seasons - we try to play like Barca/City with League 1 standard players.

It could be argued that Evatt has accrued better players over that time and our play is often is a bit slicker, but seeing as opposition teams have worked out what we trying to do, we need REALLY good players to pass through packed defenses - players we can't afford. That's the conundrum for me.

Evatt talks about "sticking with the process" and I can understand why - to change now and to try to play a different way would require practically an entire squad of different players. After all, the current players were scouted specifically for this approach. And if we have to stick with "the process" for the time being, we've simply got to get better at it, have options for tweaks and be ruthless at both ends of the park.

[Ani]

Genuine Question...

Does anyone think Evatt knows his best XI ? 

[Leyther_Matt]

4 hours ago, Zico said:

Make that 3 with CJ 

I get the need to make changes but I've never felt he's come on and made us better or got us over the line 

He's scored 0 goals in 32 league appearances

In contrast Gayle has come in at derby and got 3 in 5 

He won a penalty at Barnsley if that counts 

But I can't think of anything else

 

I’m maybe biased in the sense of I’m still convinced Jerome will have a Wilbraham moment, but it’s a bit harsh to say he hasn’t had any impact. The game only changed at Barnsley when he came on and he was one of the few to get pass marks against Wigan. Was really unlucky with the chance against Oxford too. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Stig said:

The corner tactics are all over the place, defensively and offensively. Against Barnsley away we were putting Rico on their near post when attacking corners. Literally on the line. I assumed to try and flick it in from no range. But then the ball in never went to him.

Yesterday he was always in the middle about 12 yards out as if to attack the ball in, but we didn't win a single offensive corner header. 

Just looks so amateur 

Rico was the blocker for attacking corners vs. Oxford.

Our 6ft 6 monster of a centre half was sacrificed to be the man take an opposition player out.

The point about Evatt’s inability to change a game in play is so so true. You watch what Warne did yesterday and there is no way on this earth that we would ever do such a thing. He is so unbelievably rigid and I really do think it’s his achilles heel - it never feels like he’s spotted something and gone with a gut feel, everything is pre planned, scripted, backed up by stats and there’s no moving away from that plan unless we’re forced into it with something like a red card.

[desperado]

This is a really conflicted, heart-felt post, so I’m not even sure it’ll make sense when I read back.

I was coming on here to be negative, to say that was a defeat too many, our record in big games needs addressing, why are we not turning footballing dominance into goals/victories? I’ll not go on, why? Because it’s already been said/debated…. In a multitude of repeated posts.

Instead I’m going to moan about my observations after defeats, more amplified on other social media but also on here.

Why do people feel the need to to nail their colours to the mast on a negative viewpoint, then after a defeat/poor performance rush onto the net to repeatedly share their opinion/evidence to justify their opinion as if they are somehow finding some solace in us losing because it backs up what they have been saying all along?!

It’s really fucking depressing, almost more so than the performance itself! 

Then when someone tries to be positive or offer an alternative viewpoint, which God forbid might mean us proving the doubters wrong and getting promotion, they are dismissed and  laughed off as happy clappers and their opinions are pie in the sky fantasy.

If all these opinions below had credence to them, there’s no way we’d be third, still in with a chance of promotion! 

- All sorts of negativity about our manager; thin skinned, no plan B, talks too much, too rigid, too stubborn, arrogant

- Any number of our players not being good enough; Coleman, Jones, Maghoma, all our strikers, all our wing backs. 

- Our formation and tactics are wrong 

- Players not playing who should be playing; Forrester, Dempsey

- No way we can get promoted with our form

- No way we can get promoted with our record in “big” games  

Theres a crazy number of posts saying the same thing, almost as if it’s making some folk feel better that someone else shares their negative opinion and it justifies your; anger, disappointment, need not to go, not to invest emotional energy, find a different pastime… whatever negative decision you’re choosing to make next in your life concerning Bolton Wanderers. 

The large majority of us, well maybe not @Zog1 share in the joy when we win and vent when we lose, I get that. But it doesn’t need the constant/repeated drivel justifying your negative viewpoint.

@tomski is probably the best advocate of how to manage a negative viewpoint. He made it clear he’s not IE biggest fan, but he’s been really clear he’d love to be proved wrong and gives credit where it’s due. What he doesn’t do is constantly go on about it and jump on straight away with criticism to back up his viewpoint when things go wrong. 

Think we can all learn from that. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

I think the flip side of that is that some could probably also be more understanding of opposing views

The dismissiveness and mockery of posters suggesting Evatt might not quite be as good as he thinks he is has been almost cult like at times