Doncaster Rovers (H)

[Leyther_Matt]

7 minutes ago, Whitestar said:

Wimbledon played us off the park 2nd half of that game.

Don’t remember them really having a sniff tbh and certainly remember that being the general consensus in the Leather Bottle post-match but the £7.40 Estrella may have clouded my memory 

[Johnnyrotten]

17 hours ago, Zico said:

We're still 3rd

And by that it tells me everyone below is just as inconsistent 

This year's play offs looking like the biggest lottery in years

Probably be won by Plymouth or Luton 

If the 3rd to 6th teams carry on getting points at the same rate (doubtful in our case with the fixtures), we'd finish 3rd on 80, and the other play off teams 79, 75 and 71.

Last year Orient finished 6th on 78 and the other 3 got 87, 85 and 84.

 

[Johnnyrotten]

9 hours ago, waffer cup 07 said:

When was the last time Shennan played well.

2nd half at Rotherham.  Not good 1st half but if he was 4 out of 10 his midfield colleagues were both 2.

 

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Not sure how you can group Christie and Conway together.  Chalk and cheese.

Christie goes backwards because he's not got the energy or pace to go forward, Conway goes forward at every opportunity, he hit countless 20/25 yard passes to feet to try to get attacks going, and he's always trying to beat a man, rightly or wrongly.  The Doncaster defender gave as good as he got tonight, but no sign at all of a lack of confidence, just lack of skill on the night at times.

 

I agree you can’t class Conway in the same bracket as Christie but that statement is just not true.

Since the start of the season he’s less and less attacking and will often take the easy ball backwards. I’m also not convinced that he’s ever got up to full match fitness - all season he’s looked shagged in the last 20-30 mins of a game, which doesn’t help.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, Ani said:

It has been strange, but for all we try giving our opinions based on watching games the staff see all that and more. I have mentioned above him , Sheehan and Ethan E never seem to make breaks forward and are happy just picking ball up and playing along the back. 

Simply incorrect eg 1.  his 30 yard inch perfect pass to Gale at Rotherham - the one where he killed it stone dead then shot weakly at the keeper.  2.  Virtually the same superb pass to Kenny, for him to beat the full back and cross for Dalby to score.  3.  35 yard through ball to Conway in the box last night that none of us watching had even spotted was on.  That's just 3 off the top of my head that no other player can execute more than once in a blue moon and he does it effortlessly most games, so that its not even noticed any more.

[Rizlar]

IMO Sheehan would be better in a 3 man midfield.

[masi 51]

13 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

IMO Sheehan would be better in a 3 man midfield.

The team would be a lot better.....We are getting over ran when the opposition have the ball

[Johnnyrotten]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Replied to points above but the final sentence is the real gist of my comments if people want to say our performances have been disappointing especially as it has let Cardiff play with no pressure that is valid but our form has to be measured by points as it was early season when playing well but not winning.
 

My biggest concern is that after a season of not knowing our best team we are going to be missing our 2 most impactful players in Duberry and Taylor and we cope with that. 

We played well a few times early in the season, not disputing that - Plymouth, Reading, Wigan, Huddersfield.

We won 3 of those and deserved to beat Reading, only drew.

There weren't any other games when we played well and didn't win, IMO, not sure which you mean?

Our points total to date flatters us IMO with so many late equalisers and winners.

[Johnnyrotten]

51 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I agree you can’t class Conway in the same bracket as Christie but that statement is just not true.

Since the start of the season he’s less and less attacking and will often take the easy ball backwards. I’m also not convinced that he’s ever got up to full match fitness - all season he’s looked shagged in the last 20-30 mins of a game, which doesn’t help.

That's a separate point and not one I'm disputing, he does tend to tire, its more obvious with him as he rarely gets subbed unlike most of the midfield and forwards.  So he's arguably often the only player in the team that has to both defend and attack, and play 90 odd minutes.

I also agree he has some games when he isn't as attack minded as his normal self.  In recent games he was back to his best at Reading and much more like it at Rotherham (that pass to put CBT through didn't get the credit it deserved because of the miss and injury).

Last night I wasn't imagining it, he was setting up loads of attacks with accurate longish passes, and particularly in the first half he was trying to get things going on the left, not always successfully but he's allowed a below average game.  He seems to get judged more harshly than whoever's playing on the right maybe because of the unbelievable standards he set earlier in the season, agreed he's not quite at that level.

[woolli]

21 hours ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said:

I'm not usually a big Sheehan critic but can see why he divides opinion but on tonights showing I wouldnt be unhappy if we got a few bob for him in the summer and replaced him with Gotts........that lad showed how that role should be played tonight, everything he did was crisp and energetic.

Gotts run the show for them!

[Ani]

43 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

We played well a few times early in the season, not disputing that - Plymouth, Reading, Wigan, Huddersfield.

We won 3 of those and deserved to beat Reading, only drew.

There weren't any other games when we played well and didn't win, IMO, not sure which you mean?

Our points total to date flatters us IMO with so many late equalisers and winners.

I was not really arguing we were world beaters just that form is measured by results not performances . 

But you have sent me down a rabbit hole so this long post is your fault 😂👍😉
 

We played 4 games in first month or so where  we dominated games but did not win. At the time the keeper was blamed for everything as he was stopping about 50% of shots on target. We can argue about what was ‘deserved’ buts stats wise the picture is clear. 
 

Reading (21-5)  Blackpool (19-7), Lincoln, (18-5) Barnsley (17-5) all 1-1 draws, the numbers in brackets are the shots in the game, 75-22 in our favour. You acknowledge Reading but the other ones are similar. shots on target in those games 23-9. Conceding from every other SOT scoring from 1 in 5.75. Not long after this drew 1-1 at Orient who scored with their only Shot on target. 
 

After those games our ‘form’ was not determined by shots but by points, as it was over Xmas , when we were poor 5 points in 6 games. 
 

So going back to the point I was making our current ‘poor form’ of 10 from 6 whilst in no way good or inspirational ain’t bad. We ain’t a brilliant team but in the next few we have to be ‘good enough’ to get enough points for play offs (preferably) 3rd or 4th and then good enough to win the play offs. If we do no one remembers performances. 
 

Hard to argue about the injury time games, but equally I am struggling to think of many games where on the balance of play we ‘nicked’ points. Wycombe probably based on 60-70 minutes. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Rizlar said:

IMO Sheehan would be better in a 3 man midfield.

Aye.

Or use wide men who aren't necessarily out and out wingers, but midfielders happy on the flanks.

We don't generally have that though, so the 3 in the middle may be better.

[Johnnyrotten]

15 minutes ago, Ani said:

I was not really arguing we were world beaters just that form is measured by results not performances . 

But you have sent me down a rabbit hole so this long post is your fault 😂👍😉
 

We played 4 games in first month or so where  we dominated games but did not win. At the time the keeper was blamed for everything as he was stopping about 50% of shots on target. We can argue about what was ‘deserved’ buts stats wise the picture is clear. 
 

Reading (21-5)  Blackpool (19-7), Lincoln, (18-5) Barnsley (17-5) all 1-1 draws, the numbers in brackets are the shots in the game, 75-22 in our favour. You acknowledge Reading but the other ones are similar. shots on target in those games 23-9. Conceding from every other SOT scoring from 1 in 5.75. Not long after this drew 1-1 at Orient who scored with their only Shot on target. 
 

After those games our ‘form’ was not determined by shots but by points, as it was over Xmas , when we were poor 5 points in 6 games. 
 

So going back to the point I was making our current ‘poor form’ of 10 from 6 whilst in no way good or inspirational ain’t bad. We ain’t a brilliant team but in the next few we have to be ‘good enough’ to get enough points for play offs (preferably) 3rd or 4th and then good enough to win the play offs. If we do no one remembers performances. 
 

Hard to argue about the injury time games, but equally I am struggling to think of many games where on the balance of play we ‘nicked’ points. Wycombe probably based on 60-70 minutes. 

Fair and reasoned response/argument.

I don't want to get into "we were poor/no we weren't" territory, but whilst I was probably harsh to say we didn't deserve to win games that we didn't, I think the stats are generous towards us because we are behind in games so often, so we are shooting and creating a lot more than if we'd taken an early lead.  That isn't the whole story of course and its right to give us credit for fighting back, absolutely, but I don't necessarily go along with that makes us the better team, if the opposition are intent on just defending 2nd half.

And stats can be misleading - I was at Barnsley and we were absolutely 2nd best for a good hour.  Randall and Simons at their worst (Morley improved things).  Lucky to be only one down.  The sending off changed the momentum and we might have won in the end, but it was another poor away performance that set the pattern for the next 6 months rather than being a one off.

[Ani]

11 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Fair and reasoned response/argument.

I don't want to get into "we were poor/no we weren't" territory, but whilst I was probably harsh to say we didn't deserve to win games that we didn't, I think the stats are generous towards us because we are behind in games so often, so we are shooting and creating a lot more than if we'd taken an early lead.  That isn't the whole story of course and its right to give us credit for fighting back, absolutely, but I don't necessarily go along with that makes us the better team, if the opposition are intent on just defending 2nd half.

And stats can be misleading - I was at Barnsley and we were absolutely 2nd best for a good hour.  Randall and Simons at their worst (Morley improved things).  Lucky to be only one down.  The sending off changed the momentum and we might have won in the end, but it was another poor away performance that set the pattern for the next 6 months rather than being a one off.

I am so happy you have replied like that I was dreading a dragged out discussion that went nowhere. 👍😂👍

[wakey]

15 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Agree with your general points about formation and level of performance.

And Dempsey did OK, not one of his better performances but great attitude, for me Sheehan was our best midfielder, he does things that go unnoticed if there's no goal at the end of it.  Eg about 80 minutes surrounded by 3 players on the halfway line, to even see the little 5 yard pass to set Dempsey away never mind execute it effortlessly was something you don't see from many L1 players, certainly not our's.  

Reading and execution of the game is a class above.

Absolutely baffles me that we have so many fans who don't appreciate how good Sheehan is.

[Whitesince63]

14 hours ago, Eddie said:

I agree you can’t class Conway in the same bracket as Christie but that statement is just not true.

Since the start of the season he’s less and less attacking and will often take the easy ball backwards. I’m also not convinced that he’s ever got up to full match fitness - all season he’s looked shagged in the last 20-30 mins of a game, which doesn’t help.

I agree about Conways less attacking but for me he’s a genuine wing back and constrained by our wingers, especially Gale who’s no help to him at all. Last season ant Crewe annd early this one to be fair he got forward regularly but now he sits back and receives poor sideways passes from Toal and Johnson when he’s already being closed down. Personally I’d ditch the winger on that side and let Max use his skills there instead but sadly that’s not Schu’s thinking. As for looking tired, he played pretty much every game last season for Crewe and wasn’t tired so what can have changed?

Edited March 19 by Whitesince63

[Whitestar]

49 minutes ago, wakey said:

Absolutely baffles me that we have so many fans who don't appreciate how good Sheehan is.

Sheehan is like the kid at school that has matching shin pads and drinks bottle and his dad goes to watch him train, his dad knows the teacher and has an estate car that can hold 8-9 kids.

Apart from that the other kids wonder how he even gets a look in.

[frank_spencer]

1 hour ago, wakey said:

Absolutely baffles me that we have so many fans who don't appreciate how good Sheehan is.

Aye the midfield should be Sheehan plus whoever SS thinks is required.

[Mounts Kipper]

Quality Sheehan, as well as dictating play he can pop up in his own box make an important challenge as the opposing player about to pull the trigger, did that against Doncaster saved an almost certain goal. 

[desperado]

2 hours ago, wakey said:

Absolutely baffles me that we have so many fans who don't appreciate how good Sheehan is.

I liked the post because I think he’s a great player.

But there is a big BUT.

There are certain games when he just doesn’t have the impact we know he can. 

A harsh example, I know, as everyone was shit, but Oxford at Wembley he was awful. Been a few other occasions too.

He probably won’t play this weekend. 

SS has already acknowledged that there’s certain games he prefers Dempsey/Erhahon.

The bit that winds me up most on the Sheehan debate is when fans start saying, quite adamantly, when SS should and shouldn’t pick him.

Quite often after the event.

There is no Science behind when he should/shouldn’t play, because, like most of our clan he’s got a level of inconsistency and unpredictability.

I don’t think he should start this Saturday*. But if he does, SS will have a hell of a lot more data, knowledge and understanding behind that decision than I ever would. 

*every fan is allowed to have an  opinion.

 

Edited March 19 by desperado

[Whitesince63]

Sheehan is one of those for me who does a few notable things in games occasionally but most of the time he offers little and I can’t think of one game when you could say he actually dominated things. What we need is someone in midfield who can dominate and dictate play and currently we don’t have one of those which is why we’re not challenging Cardiff and Lincoln.

[RUREADY2ROLL]

24 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Sheehan is one of those for me who does a few notable things in games occasionally but most of the time he offers little and I can’t think of one game when you could say he actually dominated things. What we need is someone in midfield who can dominate and dictate play and currently we don’t have one of those which is why we’re not challenging Cardiff and Lincoln.

We’re not challenging the top two because we have drawn far too many which we should have won easily. Blackpool home and away, Northampton and Mansfield home; Rotherham Away and Doncaster Home, 13 more points and there are many more

[Stig]

56 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Sheehan is one of those for me who does a few notable things in games occasionally but most of the time he offers little and I can’t think of one game when you could say he actually dominated things. What we need is someone in midfield who can dominate and dictate play and currently we don’t have one of those which is why we’re not challenging Cardiff and Lincoln.

Rotherham at home he dominated and got forward.

FWIW my main gripe about him is he sits too deep, I want him further forward, using his quick feet and passing ability in places that hurt the opposition. Too much of it picking up balls deep in our half, even from the goalie, which adds nothing. 

Leave the defensive donkey work to EE and/or Simons 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, Whitestar said:

Sheehan is like the kid at school that has matching shin pads and drinks bottle and his dad goes to watch him train, his dad knows the teacher and has an estate car that can hold 8-9 kids.

Apart from that the other kids wonder how he even gets a look in.

 

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

Aye the midfield should be Sheehan plus whoever SS thinks is required.

A sense of balance required here.

For me, he's a third division player. Talent with the ball, but absent in the physicals.

He shouldn't be "first pick" any more than others.

We've seen both sides of his game all the while he's been here.

We win with him playing, and lose with him playing.

In some games, where the opposition is decent and "in your face" he isn't anywhere near as effective as he is when our football is dominating and he has that bit more time.

As I've always said; if he was so good, he'd have been playing at a higher level.

Nevertheless, played at a decent level in this league, and may yet help get us up.

[masi 51]

36 minutes ago, Stig said:

Rotherham at home he dominated and got forward.

FWIW my main gripe about him is he sits too deep, I want him further forward, using his quick feet and passing ability in places that hurt the opposition. Too much of it picking up balls deep in our half, even from the goalie, which adds nothing. 

Leave the defensive donkey work to EE and/or Simons 

The only midfielder in History to play behind a defensive midfielder