Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Birch- its not the amount of money per se that's the issue; but as I pointed out one bloke earning 4.3% of a companies income, is absolute madness. If they have 850 employees or not its very dodgy. Yes, whilst they're such a good revenue generator then folks will still support their debt, but by the fuck, if sky and BT suddenly decide they don't want to charge their customers as much for games and decide to offer smaller deals then some arses are going to start twitching. On a moral level, whilst you can't blame players, if some daft cunt is offering them half a million a week, does it not get to the point where players perhaps take a look at themselves, see what's going on in the real world, and say perhaps It doesn't matter if a teammate is earning a hundred grand a week more than me- I've got a shitload anyhow. As plenty of lads have said, the game is slipping away and research has shown that far fewer youngsters are watching games than used to. If clubs don't take notice, then in a generation they could be creating a major shit storm for themselves. Quote
madthatter Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Not sure what point your trying to make, clearly Man Utd aren’t playing Hartlepool every week Granted they can outspend Burnley but the gap isn’t as big as a pro heavy weight vs a pro feather weight is it, you can see that from Burnley’s results this season If anything the money in the PL is a leveller now. Burnley will turnover £140m and can now pay the manager £70k a week. They could sign 20 players on £100k a week and still break even. They can get a solid squad together that can compete with the big boys on any given Saturday. That’s one of the reasons why so many billions of people world wide are paying to watch the PL It seems to me, like most things in this country, anything that we are good at or successful with gets trashed and we hark back to the old days with a view of the world through rose tinted specs My point is money is killing competition and needs to be spread out more evenly to make it more competitive and enjoyable. Those who want to wank off over Barca etc, crack on; can't say watching elites battle out for the prizes time after time makes compelling viewing for me. It was only an analogy, not a literal comparison, but I think there's something in it. The likes of Forest winning a Euro cup will never happen while this set up is around. That's quite sad and I don't care about the past being better, but as far as the future goes, it interests me less than it ever has. Edited January 24, 2018 by madthatter Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Firstly 1 bloke earning 4.3% of a company’s income isn’t madness though is it. I bet you would find that at thousands of companies up and down the country My father in law has a small company with 5 or 6 lads, I bet they are all swallowing up 10% of the turnover a piece It will be the same for any business model that largely relies on a dozen or so people to do the majority of the productive work The point you make about the game slipping away, i’d say that’s a personal perspective. On the whole attendances, global TV viewing figures and total revenue is on the up. It points to the fact that the game, particularly the PL is becoming more and more popular, not less so I’m sure one day viewing figures will decline, even if that’s the case and Man Utd bring in £60m a year rather than £600 it’s likely that the star player will still get 5% of that revenue as it’s down to a dozen or so lads on the pitch to bring the money in Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 My point is money is killing competition and needs to be spread out more evenly to make it more competitive and enjoyable. Those who want to wank off over Barca etc, crack on; can't say watching elites battle out for the prizes time after time makes compelling viewing for me. It was only an analogy, not a literal comparison, but I think there's something in it. The likes of Forest winning a Euro cup will never happen while this set up is around. That's quite sad and I don't care about the past being better, but as far as the future goes, it interests me less than it ever has. Leicester won the league 2 years ago That’s got to be up their with Forrest winning the European Cup in the 70’s Quote
Sweep Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) . Edited January 25, 2018 by Sweep Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Firstly 1 bloke earning 4.3% of a company’s income isn’t madness though is it. I bet you would find that at thousands of companies up and down the country My father in law has a small company with 5 or 6 lads, I bet they are all swallowing up 10% of the turnover a piece It will be the same for any business model that largely relies on a dozen or so people to do the majority of the productive work The point you make about the game slipping away, i’d say that’s a personal perspective. On the whole attendances, global TV viewing figures and total revenue is on the up. It points to the fact that the game, particularly the PL is becoming more and more popular, not less so I’m sure one day viewing figures will decline, even if that’s the case and Man Utd bring in £60m a year rather than £600 it’s likely that the star player will still get 5% of that revenue as it’s down to a dozen or so lads on the pitch to bring the money in Can't agree there. Don't know what you're dad in laws place is doing so can't comment, but that income has to pay for overheads, raw materials, taxes etc etc. No doubt some exceptions, but going back to utd, they were leveraged iirc during the purchase. That debt has to be serviced, wages, costs etc.. It only needs a downturn on the deal, and a few players on huge wages, that have a contract for two or three years (sound familiar) and those holding the debt could start to get a little concerned. Not saying it will, but there's been plenty of examples of clubs paying out more in wages than they take in. Not sustainable long term, baring outside assistance from a benefactor. FFP is supposed to sort that. Quote
madthatter Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Leicester won the league 2 years ago That’s got to be up their with Forrest winning the European Cup in the 70’s Exception and rule n all that. How good was it to see? How often/likely will we see that again? Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Exception and rule n all that. How good was it to see? How often/likely will we see that again? Of course it is an exception As was Forrest winning the EuropeanCup Your point was that it won’t happen with the game how it is today, I was just pointing out that it happened 18 months ago Quote
gonzo Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 The point stands that's it just too top heavy. Birch is right in that the premier league et all is as popular as it's ever been, but the share of the wealth is where it's all fucked. The conglomerate at the top reap the benefits, mainly through wealthy backers throwing obscene amounts of cash at it. That's where as sport it's wrong. It will never happen but there should be a salary cap. How can you have a level playing field when wolves are bidding £35 million for players at one end of our division and us struggling to pay the tea lady at the other. Yes football clubs are businesses, but there's 92 clubs and beyond. No club in this country should be folding due to lack of cash when we are all meant to be in it together. Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Can't agree there. Don't know what you're dad in laws place is doing so can't comment, but that income has to pay for overheads, raw materials, taxes etc etc. No doubt some exceptions, but going back to utd, they were leveraged iirc during the purchase. That debt has to be serviced, wages, costs etc.. It only needs a downturn on the deal, and a few players on huge wages, that have a contract for two or three years (sound familiar) and those holding the debt could start to get a little concerned. Not saying it will, but there's been plenty of examples of clubs paying out more in wages than they take in. Not sustainable long term, baring outside assistance from a benefactor. FFP is supposed to sort that. I’ve not looked so it’s all guess work but I doubt you would find any premier league clubs paying more out in wages than they have coming in at the moment, not with the increased TV deal, Man City perhaps Some clubs will be badly run and overstretch themselves when relegated, but that can happen if teams in the premier league are bringing in £6m, £60m or £600m Edited January 24, 2018 by birch-chorley Quote
stevieb Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 New Leeds badge. Nice. Can't see many fat fuckers having that tattoo on their belly Quote
MalcolmW Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 That's itching for Malc to come and correct you....... OK. 1 It was Forest, not Forrest. 2. Although their first win was in 1978-79 their second was in 1979-80, so not the seventies. Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 The point stands that's it just too top heavy. Birch is right in that the premier league et all is as popular as it's ever been, but the share of the wealth is where it's all fucked. The conglomerate at the top reap the benefits, mainly through wealthy backers throwing obscene amounts of cash at it. That's where as sport it's wrong. It will never happen but there should be a salary cap. How can you have a level playing field when wolves are bidding £35 million for players at one end of our division and us struggling to pay the tea lady at the other. Yes football clubs are businesses, but there's 92 clubs and beyond. No club in this country should be folding due to lack of cash when we are all meant to be in it together. Salary caps sound great but in reality are unworkable IMO Let’s just say you cap it at 50% of turnover Man united still have £300m to go at vs Burnley’s £70m so you have the same problem with competitiveness However where would the rest of the money go? The owners would just make huge profits instead. I’d rather United share a larger proportion of the income around 25 players than have a salary cap that means the Glazers send huge profits back to the US. At least the country benefits when it goes to players in the form of 50% PAYE and a boost to the local economy through spending Quote
MickyD Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 How about you cap it irrespective of income? I remember Sir Nat talking about the top wages for a pro footballer were £5. Didn't matter who you were or who you played for, it was capped at a fiver. Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 How about you cap it irrespective of income? I remember Sir Nat talking about the top wages for a pro footballer were £5. Didn't matter who you were or who you played for, it was capped at a fiver. Ok, let’s say it’s capped at £1m a year for a footballer Hurray, wages are more in line with the real world 25 players cost £25m a year in wages, what happens to the other £600m Man United brings in then? That’s a huge amount of profit going to a couple of Americans rather than the players At least the HMRC gets half of it when it goes to the players Quote
Leyther_Matt Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Ok, let’s say it’s capped at £1m a year for a footballer Hurray, wages are more in line with the real world 25 players cost £25m a year in wages, what happens to the other £600m Man United brings in then? That’s a huge amount of profit going to a couple of Americans rather than the players At least the HMRC gets half of it when it goes to the players Added to the fact that there’s no way it would be capped worldwide so the whole thing goes tits up when every player worth their salt fucks off abroad. Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Aye, but even if you managed to do it globally All it means is a few dozen owners making billions rather than a few hundred footballers making tens of millions Quote
MalcolmW Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Eagles and N'Gog both on the bench for Ross County tonight at Motherwell. Quote
gonzo Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 https://twitter.com/theawayfansvids/status/956239569661448192 No Way they've just quoted a parody account on SSN Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I’ve not looked so it’s all guess work but I doubt you would find any premier league clubs paying more out in wages than they have coming in at the moment, not with the increased TV deal, Man City perhaps Some clubs will be badly run and overstretch themselves when relegated, but that can happen if teams in the premier league are bringing in £6m, £60m or £600m Agree with that. My 'worry' would be someone with a huge debt, suddenly being subjected to a change in their income. Not necessarily relegation, as its not going to happen at utd, but as folk are saying top flight football is losing a bit of its gloss and sooner or later you'd expect a bit of a bust. There's a risk those holding the debt might wang up the interest or want it paying up. All very hypothetical and football is a very unusual business granted, but it sits a little uneasy. As my brother was saying when I was discussing this with him, those clubs with a sugar daddy are more at risk still. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) . Edited January 24, 2018 by Tonge moor green jacket Quote
Northender Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 https://twitter.com/theawayfansvids/status/956239569661448192 No Way they've just quoted a parody account on SSN BBC sport are quoting that tweet as well, so not from him? Quote
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 They tend to do deals in three year blocks and clubs know well in advance what’s going to happen with TV money, in the right hands it shouldn’t be an issue but clearly you can have mismanagement of finances in the hunt for glory In all honesty though if a Man Utd or Man City did go bust would anyone on here give a shit? I wouldn’t, just like they wouldn’t if we went Quote
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