Politics

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Come on now; do you really believe we will be paying billions for years to come. I don't.

 

Anyhow, Italy is growing faster, but has higher youth unemployment. Another rag may choose to push the latter, but pass over the former to suit its own agenda.

 

Negotiations have only just started. Yes Boris may not have helped with this, but surely judgements can only be made several years hence.

 

Throw in natural economic cycles and anyone can skew data to make a point.

[jules_darby]

You really believe anything in George Osborne's rag?

Didn't say I believe it or didn't believe it

 

Funny how those with obvious confirmation bias immediately don't believe it

[bolty58]

This entire process of Remoaners painting the darkest picture and Leavers the brightest has become terribly boring.

 

We all know that reality will lie somewhere in between and like Mounts, I am optimistic that the resulting deal will be more towards the positive side of the ledger for us than the negative. An encouraging start if the 18B quid mentioned is our opening gambit and negotiations can start from there instead of the ridiculous amounts Francois and Fritz have been hinting at. 

 

If the EU wants to play hardball maybe it is time to just say adios and get the fuck on with it.

[Traf]

So yes he fucked it off because he couldn't handle people disagreeing with him and taking him on.

 

You can carpet bomb people with 175 paragraph posts all day long, but that doesn't make you right or more intellectual than anyone else on here.

 

I thought he was pretty sound to be honest, but like other couldn't handle it when the place became more diverse in opinion.

 

Also spouted a lot of bollocks and didn't like being called out when wrong.

 

Typical cyber "expert".

[gonzo]

The climate change debate being a particular highlight.

[Youri McAnespie]

I'll have you know the likes of Dr Ebenezer Buckwheat, son and heir to Shelloil, Professor Johnny Petronas (DPhil Strongwind University of Gabon) and Sheikh Abou Mansarior, Crown Prince of Oman are all respected climatologists and have strong refutation for the 'warmist' agendas...

[MalcolmW]

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-britain-plummets-into-economic-growth-slow-lane-as-even-italy-overtakes-uk-in-latest-forecast-a3639146.html

 

JSL[/quote

 

Shocking isn't it we're going to the dogs it seems. Or rather more an anti Brexit rag trying a little too hard to get the metropolitan elite remainers to buy their rag? I might take the report seriously if they had compared uk and Italian growth over the last 5 years. For a supposedly respected newspaper to run an ariticle that suggests that the Italian economy is or even predicted to be superior to ours just goes to show how silly and painful this Brexit has been for the remainers. I am even more suprised someone as seemingly intelligent as yourself has even bothered to post such tripe.

It is a free newspaper nowadays (because nobody would buy it).

[Sweep]

Come on now; do you really believe we will be paying billions for years to come. I don't.

 

 

 

I fully expect us to tell the EU, probably on Friday, that once we leave, we will continue to contribute to the EU coffers to the tune of around £10B per year for a further 2 or 3 years after we've left. Do you not think we'll still be paying in after March 2019?

[Mounts Kipper]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/News/business/news/gdp-brexit-europe-uk-economy-weakest-first-quarter-of-2017-a7778576.html%3famp

Mounts there is only so long that you can defend the reality, our economy is slowing and has been for sometime since we voted for Brexit. TM's speech in Florence on Friday will no doubt shed more light on the 10s of £billions that we will pay to the EU for years to come. All of which you were adament that we wouldn't have to pay because we hold all the cards. If this is the anything like what we should expect over the next 18 months then we will be so worse off. Years of hardship for what?

 

 

Do me a favour the figures are for 3 months and were 0.2% below the French it means diddly squat, retail sales up, unemployment down, manufacturing up are some of the positives in our economy and you choose to high light a minuscule reduction in growth from a 12 week period. Its nothing short of pathetic.   

 

And did you miss this paragraph in the article.

 

Despite the Brexit vote, which many had expected to result in a recession, the UK’s economy grew by 1.8 per cent in 2016 as a whole, the strongest rate of growth in the G7.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Mounts Kipper

[birch-chorley]

I know its a new thread Mounts but if you dig the old one out and start from the front you will see that many leave voters used exactly the same cut of data as a reason why we should leave the EU, back then the data showed that we were the fastest growing economy

 

You cant have it both ways

 

Personally I read little into these small cuts of data when deciding something that will impact growth over decades  

[Mounts Kipper]

I know its a new thread Mounts but if you dig the old one out and start from the front you will see that many leave voters used exactly the same cut of data as a reason why we should leave the EU, back then the data showed that we were the fastest growing economy

 

You cant have it both ways

 

Personally I read little into these small cuts of data when deciding something that (I think)  will impact growth over decades  

 

EFA.

[birch-chorley]

EFA.

No 'I think' about it

 

Leaving the EU / Single market will have a huge impact on our economy, I believe it will be negative, you positive, but change all the same. The fall out either way will last decades

 

That's why I'd not be taking too much notice of such a short sample of data when deciding something so big

[whiteboy]

What a dick Osborne is. Surely everyone of all political persuasions is going to get bored of reading his personal sniping on the front page every night.

 

Bring back thelondonpaper

[MalcolmW]

What a dick Osborne is. Surely everyone of all political persuasions is going to get bored of reading his personal sniping on the front page every night.

 

Bring back thelondonpaper

 

History will view him as the worst Conservative Chancellor for 40 years (since Barber).

[Salford Trotter]

Do me a favour the figures are for 3 months and were 0.2% below the French it means diddly squat, retail sales up, unemployment down, manufacturing up are some of the positives in our economy and you choose to high light a minuscule reduction in growth from a 12 week period. Its nothing short of pathetic.   

 

And did you miss this paragraph in the article.

 

Despite the Brexit vote, which many had expected to result in a recession, the UK’s economy grew by 1.8 per cent in 2016 as a whole, the strongest rate of growth in the G7.

Nothing pathetic about it, we are talking about 2017 and beyond now. There is a growing reality this will be much tougher than any Brexiteer suggested at the outset it would be and that breeds uncertainty which leads to business and individuals wary of investing and spending and we all know what impact that has on the economy. TM and DD have not filled me with any confidence with their public statements so far on the progress of negotiations which suggests we will have years of a transition deal which in turn means £billions more to the EU coffers. I though this was meant to easy peasy?? 

[Mounts Kipper]

Nothing pathetic about it, we are talking about 2017 and beyond now. There is a growing reality this will be much tougher than any Brexiteer suggested at the outset it would be and that breeds uncertainty which leads to business and individuals wary of investing and spending and we all know what impact that has on the economy. TM and DD have not filled me with any confidence with their public statements so far on the progress of negotiations which suggests we will have years of a transition deal which in turn means £billions more to the EU coffers. I though this was meant to easy peasy??

It really is quite simple give the EU a financial short term olive branch for them to save face if they refuse to accept our offer just pull out and go WTO. No deal is as bad for the eu as the uk that's why I've consistently said that there will be a deal.

 

While your view has been doom and gloom from day one. I believe that both parties will agree a common sense compromise that does not send Europe into a decline.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Mounts Kipper

[Sweep]

 I though this was meant to easy peasy?? 

 

To be fair on those who voted to leave, we were told it would be easy, and that we would be able to pretty much demand what we wanted  - it has since transpired, and even the most ardent "leaver" would admit, that things are actually pretty complicated, and nothing is going to be sorted quickly or easily.

 

We can blame the EU all we want for making it difficult, but why shiould they make it easy. At the end of the day, it appears that they actually hold the majority of the cards.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that we won't be getting everything that we want, which is fine, because why would the EU make it more attractive not to be a member of their club, than to actually be a fully paid up member.

 

The immediate points of interest will be to see how much we will be paying, and for how long, once we leave the EU in 18 months time, because I'm sure that we'll still be coughing up fortunes each year, even though we'll be "outside" - the next bit will be to see when "freedom of movement" actually finishes, as I suspect that will continue for a period of time as well

Edited September 21, 2017 by Sweep

[Sweep]

It really is quite simple give the EU a financial short term olive branch for them to save face if they refuse to accept our offer just pull out and go WTO. No deal is as bad for the eu as the uk that's why I've consistently said that there will be a deal.

 

I suppose it depends how much the short term olive branch is, if as rumoured it is a further £10B per year, for 2 or 3 years, then that's a fair old chunk of cash

 

I agree with you that there will be a deal of some description, and  I think it'll be a free trade deal........they will make us pay for it though. Who will it hurt more? - only time will tell. Apparently 45% of UK exports go to the EU, no individual country within the EU (with the exception of Ireland) has more than 10% of it's exports go to the UK (according to Michael Heseltine yesterday) - I'm not really sure what all that means.

 

I'm sure we'll end up with he right deal, sadly though I think it'll take several years to get there

[tyldesley_white]

Go to the WTO Mounts, is that not going from one set on unelected people to another set of unelected people

[Mounts Kipper]

To be fair on those who voted to leave, we were told it would be easy, and that we would be able to pretty much demand what we wanted - it has since transpired, and even the most ardent "leaver" would admit, that things are actually pretty complicated, and nothing is going to be sorted quickly or easily.

 

We can blame the EU all we want for making it difficult, but why shiould they make it easy. At the end of the day, it appears that they actually hold the majority of the cards.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that we won't be getting everything that we want, which is fine, because why would the EU make it more attractive not to be a member of their club, than to actually be a fully paid up member.

 

The immediate points of interest will be to see how much we will be paying, and for how long, once we leave the EU in 18 months time, because I'm sure that we'll still be coughing up fortunes each year, even though we'll be "outside" - the next bit will be to see when "freedom of movement" actually finishes, as I suspect that will continue for a period of time as well

All we want is to trade freely that suits European states as well. If the federalist crackpots like juncker are driving the EU fun bus it's only going to end in a crash. I'm quite sure though that more liberal states who aren't interested in more Europe will win the day and common sense will eventually prevail. In the meantime we must steer a steady course without interference for pro EU Brits who can't get over it.

 

And regarding who's holding what set of cards is irrelevant if we decide to stack cut and run giving the EU nothing. I'd actually love us to do just that just to see how the lunatics who run the EU asylum would react.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

Massive speech from May on Friday going to be very interesting.

[birch-chorley]

Clearly mounts if we could cut and run for nothing then we would do

 

However it's always been impossible, we have made financial commitments that need to be seen through

 

You can't just fuck off a commitment part way through, it's legally not possible, if it was then we wouldn't be offering anything at all

 

How much of it we are obligated to and how much we can reasonably pull out of at this stage is the question and we will find out this week what our opening offer will be

 

Some folk originally said we could pull out in 2 weeks without paying a penny, they are in the same boat as flat Earther's for me

[MalcolmW]

Clearly mounts if we could cut and run for nothing then we would do

 

However it's always been impossible, we have made financial commitments that need to be seen through

​

 

France reneged on the agreed payment for Calais when they had paid less than a quarter of the amount.

[Sweep]

Massive speech from May on Friday going to be very interesting.

Indeed. This speech could make or break her....hopefully she'll come across as strong and assured, and not as shit and weak as she was during the election.

[Traf]

Massive speech from May on Friday going to be very interesting.

 

I doubt it'll be interesting at all, regardless of content.

 

She's a dull cunt