Football Ventures

[Zico]

2 minutes ago, DaveTheRave said:

On his day he was the best defender in our division imo. 

I think he probably peaked two years ago though.

Aye but plenty of days he wasn't

And for a captain he's never come across as much of a leader

We've had better at this level 

None of which I'd consider greats 

[DaveTheRave]

1 minute ago, Zico said:

Aye but plenty of days he wasn't

We've had better at this level 

None of which I'd consider greats 

Yea agree with that. 

I'd consider him as a good player for us.

[Casino]

Very good

Never got the credit he deserved from a lot

Seen as Evatts man, so bad

Forgetting the stand out tackles, sprints, the physical stuff...he just headed everything

 

[Greg_BWFC]

Want as many of our players available as possible.

Would love him to be fit and ready for the run in, be a massive plus at this stage of the season.

Not interested in next season and the fact that he wont be here until it starts. Let's try to win 10 more games this season.

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, Zico said:

Aye but plenty of days he wasn't

And for a captain he's never come across as much of a leader

We've had better at this level 

None of which I'd consider greats 

This doesn’t help the general view of him in my opinion. He’s not a captain, he’s not a leader and so why he was given that role I’ll never know. The memory of him standing on the half way line with 10 mins to go in the play off final, hands on hips and looking completely resigned to the result will go against him in the fans’ minds.

As just a defender, he was very very good (at this level!). However, he’ll be associated with being a weak captain and as being the main culprit (wrongly in my mind) of Evatt’s snail all in the last year of his tenure.

[Dr. Feelgood]

54 minutes ago, Eddie said:

... he’ll be associated with being a weak captain and as being the main culprit (wrongly in my mind) of Evatt’s snail ball in the last year of his tenure.

I'm not sure how that is 'wrongly' though.

OK, a team follows the managers dictat but Santos on the pitch took those instructions & quadrupled them ... along with Baxter. Plus, if it's not working, or you see a flaw, it's the captain's job to communicate that.

It was also his job to stop the players misbehaving and if tales of training ground indiscipline are true then he should have owned that.

In fact, in my view, he hid behind that as it didn't expose him to his own weaknesses as much.

He was a great player at this level, almost until his groin injury at Wembley (probably before tbf) v Plymouth.

He has most definitely sulked since losing the captaincy. 

[ianofcleveleys]

He's been part of a build from the bottom upwards curve story and enjoyed some good moments in his first three seasons. His best days are well behind him though and, while having him back fit for the last few games would clearly be an asset, he shouldn't be a shoe-in back into the side. 

He's been a good defender at L1/2 level but, as is the way so much these days, a bit over-hyped. Wheater and Beevers were both better operators, defensively and offensively.

If we'd had a squad over the last couple of years that had more leaders in it his leadership style / qualities might not have been called into question so much. Unfortunately, our squad has lacked strong leaders, needed one and he wasn't it. 

With his recent injury record, and the no doubt good money he's been on at ours, finding a new home for next season at the level he'd expect might not be straightforward for him.

[Whitesince63]

3 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

He's been part of a build from the bottom upwards curve story and enjoyed some good moments in his first three seasons. His best days are well behind him though and, while having him back fit for the last few games would clearly be an asset, he shouldn't be a shoe-in back into the side. 

He's been a good defender at L1/2 level but, as is the way so much these days, a bit over-hyped. Wheater and Beevers were both better operators, defensively and offensively.

If we'd had a squad over the last couple of years that had more leaders in it his leadership style / qualities might not have been called into question so much. Unfortunately, our squad has lacked strong leaders, needed one and he wasn't it. 

With his recent injury record, and the no doubt good money he's been on at ours, finding a new home for next season at the level he'd expect might not be straightforward for him.

Don’t care where his home is next season just as long as it’s not here. Over hyped, let it go to his head type who’s way past his L2 best. I’ll never forgive his sulk and ignoring of real fans chanting his name. He’ll never get that again wherever he goes.

[Zico]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

Very good

Never got the credit he deserved from a lot

Seen as Evatts man, so bad

Forgetting the stand out tackles, sprints, the physical stuff...he just headed everything

 

I think he sums up the Evatt reign perfectly

on his day very good, but when it's not his day nowhere to be seen which for a captain is not a good look

the rest of the players have had the opportunity to change opinions under SS by beating Brum and Wigan, the type of games they previously struggled with

if he can come back in and help us get promoted, then good for him

until then he's a "nearly, but not quite" type of player

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

It was also his job to stop the players misbehaving and if tales of training ground indiscipline are true then he should have owned that.

 

the first i heard of things not being right in training was post Santos being captain

and no, it wasnt him playing up before anybody makes anything up

i was given 3 names who looked like pros going about their work  - one is injured, one hates wigan and one is captain

at the time, some others were injured, tbf to them

[JimmyRiddle]

I think he flattered to deceive hugely.

He did the things he did well, better than any, one on ones, running forwards into the channels, heading corners/free kicks out. He wasn't a bad footballer technically either.

However, as a defender, in open play, against balls from out wide, he was absolutely awful, like really bad IMO. I bet if someone did a compilation of all the goals conceded with him in the team, a vast majority would be unmarked headers, from some very small players!, or strikers running across him. He ball watched, had no idea where people were, and didn't communicate. 

He just didn't seem very bright to me, whereas most 'top' defenders have intelligence even if they are more limited football wise. 

 

 

[Casino]

38 minutes ago, JimmyRiddle said:

However, as a defender, in open play, against balls from out wide, he was absolutely awful, like really bad IMO. I bet if someone did a compilation of all the goals conceded with him in the team, a vast majority would be unmarked headers, from some very small players!, or strikers running across him. He ball watched, had no idea where people were, and didn't communicate. 

He just didn't seem very bright to me, whereas most 'top' defenders have intelligence even if they are more limited football wise. 

 

 

even me, in team santos, would accept a lot of that

there were two other CBs though and imo he was generally 'clear the fucker if it comes near you'

which would leave us vulnerable to runners if the other 2 arent contributing 

he was like a one man heading machine, pretty often

maybe that was the trade off for having a footballing CB like Jones?

[FrancisFogarty]

19 hours ago, Cheese said:

Why do fools fall in love?

Hit the road Jack.

[FrancisFogarty]

6 hours ago, Zico said:

Aye but plenty of days he wasn't

And for a captain he's never come across as much of a leader

We've had better at this level 

None of which I'd consider greats 

This just about sums it up.

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Casino said:

the first i heard of things not being right in training was post Santos being captain

and no, it wasnt him playing up before anybody makes anything up

i was given 3 names who looked like pros going about their work  - one is injured, one hates wigan and one is captain

at the time, some others were injured, tbf to them

Are you saying that these 3 were working hard and the others pissing about, or these 3 were the problem? I can only see it being the former, considering who they are (guessing Dempsey is the 3rd) but can’t quite tell from the way you’ve written it.

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Are you saying that these 3 were working hard and the others pissing about, or these 3 were the problem? I can only see it being the former, considering who they are (guessing Dempsey is the 3rd) but can’t quite tell from the way you’ve written it.

It came second hand from a kid doing well in the juniors

3 were really putting it in

Below, there were levels of tossing it off

He said Tomo had a real issue at the time, because he was popular but didnt have the same authority

At the time I spoke to my info about the old days when the senior pro was 'club captain' and may not even play

[Casino]

And yes, Dempsey

[Farnywhite]

Evatt said himself some of the players weren’t putting the required effort in training when he wasn’t there . Poor professional attitude hopefully summer clear out for most . performances have been to up and down 

[Traf]

3 minutes ago, Farnywhite said:

Evatt said himself some of the players weren’t putting the required effort in training when he wasn’t there . Poor professional attitude hopefully summer clear out for most . performances have been to up and down 

Old news, but surely Evatt should have been there for every session?

[Dr. Feelgood]

7 hours ago, Traf said:

Old news, but surely Evatt should have been there for every session?

I get that circumstances may make that impossible, but it should be uncommon. Plus, he should have assistants (& players too come to that) with enough discipline to crack on when he isn't.

A shoddy response about a shoddy situation from a shoddy man.

[burnden]

In Santos 5 years with us has any team ever come in to buy him?

[thebells]

11 minutes ago, burnden said:

In Santos 5 years with us has any team ever come in to buy him?

I'm guessing here, but i imagine your logic is that if nobody has come in to buy him, then that means other clubs don't rate him.

Apologies if i'm wrong - feel free to shout me down.

But, that doesn't mean a great deal. Clubs make enquiries about players all the time, via agents, via the club or direct to the player themselves (usually via other pros). Santos has had interest at numerous times but it was well known he's fully committed both to Bolton and to IE, so nobody ever bid. I doubt anyone has come in to 'buy' Haaland at City or Stansfield at Birmingham, etc

He wouldn't be nominated two seasons in a row for Team of the Season if he was no good. He wouldn't have won our Player of the Year if he was no good. He wouldn't have made so many appearances at a top end League One club if he was no good.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but there's some rewriting of history going on here.

Firstly, he's been part of some fantastic days for our club over the last few years.

He may have a sulky demeanour at times, but the guy is pretty laser focussed (partly because he fannied around with much of his earlier career) and that can sometimes come across as being aloof or even arrogant. He's not a leader in the shouty kind of way, but he's absolutely someone who leads by example. The players have always looked up to him and respected him.

Even now, despite what some might think, he is fully unvested and may yet play for the club again.

He has kids of young school age and wants to go 'home' to put down some roots. Surely nobody can begrudge him that and, after 5 years, he deserves to go out with everyone's best wishes.

I think my Rolls Royce comment may have set this conversation off. All i'll say is that, relative to the level we play at, he's been excellent for this club. And the club have been excellent for him. A great? No. But someone who played a massive part in our resurgence. Yes.

Anyway, not directed at you @burnden :-). I just think the fella deserves a little more respect that he's getting.

[FrancisFogarty]

11 hours ago, Traf said:

Old news, but surely Evatt should have been there for every session?

I presume he got paid for every session. Surely he didn't have to fill in a timesheet every month.

[FrancisFogarty]

9 minutes ago, thebells said:

He wouldn't be nominated two seasons in a row for Team of the Season if he was no good. He wouldn't have won our Player of the Year if he was no good. He wouldn't have made so many appearances at a top end League One club if he was no good.

I've not read the full post.

Don't think anyone has said he's 'no good'.Apart from in the emotional disapointed post defeat rants.

I'd say the general feeling is that he's not progressed as we all hoped he would.

Edited April 4, 2025 by FrancisFogarty

[newton_white]

7 minutes ago, FrancisFogarty said:

I presume he got paid for every session. Surely he didn't have to fill in a timesheet every month.

Very few managers are present for every session. They’ll set the priorities for the next block of sessions based on who the opponent is and then pass that to their coaches to develop the appropriate session alongside the sports science team so as not to overload the players physically