27 storey tower block gone up. I've never seen anything like it. Hope and prayers to all involved... appears to be families etc.

 

Hope everyone gets out, would be amazed- but fear the worst.

 

Apparently gas works taken place... hopefully nothing more sinister.

We used to use that stuff.

 

Cheapest shit on the market that was seldom used. They may as well have wrapped the building in scrunched up newspaper and straw.

 

Diabolical.

Surely that's against building regs?

I know the main thing is to prevent fires like this, but I hope somebody can come up with some alternative rescue.  Fireman's ladders, I believe can only reach about 7 floors and that's if they can get near enough.  But there must be some other things that could be tried for those faced with the horrific choice of burn or jump (sorry to be blunt).  Cherry pickers, nets, I really don't know, thinking out loud but surely more lives could be saved?

is going to the roof and being picked up by a helicopter never a Opposition

I know the main thing is to prevent fires like this, but I hope somebody can come up with some alternative rescue.  Fireman's ladders, I believe can only reach about 7 floors and that's if they can get near enough.  But there must be some other things that could be tried for those faced with the horrific choice of burn or jump (sorry to be blunt).  Cherry pickers, nets, I really don't know, thinking out loud but surely more lives could be saved?

Surely fire escapes are designed to protect from smoke / fire??

Don't know how to multi quote, but helicopters can't get near because of the smoke.  Fire escapes are obviously supposed to be the main route, but there should still be some kind of alternative.  Most fire doors around escapes give, I think 30 or 60 mins of protection.  But that depends on somebody not propping the doors open (it happens a lot).  We had a serious fire last year, but the flat had had fire doors, and every single gap around pipework (to other flats) had been filled.  The flat was completely ruined (and most of the cladding outside the flat) but the others in the block were completely unaffected.  If it's done right, people have time to get out.  There are a lot more measures to stop fire spread but I suppose it depends on how much money councils have to do it.

 

I don't know the full details of this but heard that the fire alarms didn't even sound.  That's shocking.  One woman and her family were saved because her mate rang her.  If it had happened earlier in the night, maybe more might have got out.  It's just bloody awful.

Press multi quote

Apparently residents say they've complained about the fire alarms as in some flats they are barely audible. In the flats I've lived/stayed in when a fire alarm goes off you know about it

 

The more I read the more it screams incompetence on so many levels and it's tragic that it's come to this

Surely that's against building regs?

Been led to beleive that all the buildings when refurbished had been done so to the regulations

 

So it's those that will be under scrutiny now

Surely that's against building regs?

It has to be.

 

There was No sprinkler system and no central alarm system either.

 

The more I read the more I can't believe.

 

The last major contract i worked on was Blackpool tower. We were pulled on an MF ceiling we installed because we'd used timber soldier blocks hammered into Steel webbing to fix to. The fire officer pulled and we had to replace the timber with fire proof supalux such was the stringent regs.

 

In big jobs like that there literally is no stone unturned. I just don't get how this has happened.

Don't know how to multi quote, but helicopters can't get near because of the smoke.  Fire escapes are obviously supposed to be the main route, but there should still be some kind of alternative.  Most fire doors around escapes give, I think 30 or 60 mins of protection.  But that depends on somebody not propping the doors open (it happens a lot).  We had a serious fire last year, but the flat had had fire doors, and every single gap around pipework (to other flats) had been filled.  The flat was completely ruined (and most of the cladding outside the flat) but the others in the block were completely unaffected.  If it's done right, people have time to get out.  There are a lot more measures to stop fire spread but I suppose it depends on how much money councils have to do it.

 

I don't know the full details of this but heard that the fire alarms didn't even sound.  That's shocking.  One woman and her family were saved because her mate rang her.  If it had happened earlier in the night, maybe more might have got out.  It's just bloody awful.

I remember being on a job once painted all the FIRE doors and propped them all open with the Fire Extinguishers

 

some Fire H&S bloke come on site

 

he said that's a New One ive never seen Before

What's still burning 18 hours on?

There was a fire years ago that was due to too many coats of paint in communal areas.  No council can do anything without testing first.  This may be a combination of factors, either way it's tragic and lessons need to be learned.

Sounds like the insulation was polystyrene, well-known for accelerating fires.

 

There are alternatives such as PIR or Rockwool but I guess more expensive or deemed unsuitable.

 

Reading a bit more about this, it seems ACM (aluminium compsite material) cladding was used which has a polyethylene core

 

and also picked this up from a NZ website, company who I've worked with in the past.

 

 

 

Thermosash has been primarily utilizing Fire Rated ACM (complying with AS1530 Part 3) on external building facades due to the core of non-fire rated products ability to sustain fire. It is our opinion that despite the non-fire rated version being allowed to be used for external cladding - it is not appropriate and NZ codes should be changed to reflect this. This picture indicates a high rise fire with a non rated ACM. Not only is the specification a concern for life safety in a building but for those outside also from falling debris.

 

 

it's better to learn from other people's mistakes

Edited June 14, 20179 yr by jayjayoghani

It has to be.

There was No sprinkler system and no central alarm system either.

The more I read the more I can't believe.

The last major contract i worked on was Blackpool tower. We were pulled on an MF ceiling we installed because we'd used timber soldier blocks hammered into Steel webbing to fix to. The fire officer pulled and we had to replace the timber with fire proof supalux such was the stringent regs.

In big jobs like that there literally is no stone unturned. I just don't get how this has happened.

An expert on telly last night said that sprinklers required in Scotland. Only recommended in the rest of uk. Not compulsory. Yet.

An expert on telly last night said that sprinklers required in Scotland. Only recommended in the rest of uk. Not compulsory. Yet.

 

Would sprinklers have helped?

Police have said they "hope" for less than 100 deaths.

 

Fook me.

One woman and her family (above the fire) were saved as she flooded her apartment. You wonder if sprinklers haven't been installed on blocks before because of potential claims after small fires.

 

Huge changes will be made after this, it's just tragic that it takes an horrific incident to prompt it

Would sprinklers have helped?

Seems mixed views.

One person said not- possibly because of the ferocity.

Maybe they might have given folk more time to be rescued, I guess this will come out in the wash.

 

Mayor of London getting some stick- one Mon heckling him for not supporting JC or something.

I know there's a lot of justifiable anger, but abusing his ilk isn't going to bring back those that have perished.

When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's there seemed to be a lot more disasters; plane crashes, Tube crashes, ferries sinking etc.

 

Maybe something in that health and safety thing with these tragedies lessening in frequency.

Sad thing is a newly refurbished office block wouldn't have gone up like that.

Sad thing is a newly refurbished office block wouldn't have gone up like that.

Why sad ?

 

As I work on the 26th floor!

Edited June 15, 20179 yr by boltondiver

When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's there seemed to be a lot more disasters; plane crashes, Tube crashes, ferries sinking etc.

 

Maybe something in that health and safety thing with these tragedies lessening in frequency.

I'm sure H&S standards are getting better, they have to be

 

A piece on sky news going through previous disasters and the learnings that came out of them

 

It's no comfort for the people involved here but this won't happen again, we're very good at learning from events like this and making sure they don't

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-safety-rules-sprinklers-brandon-lewis-warn-house-building-social-housing-tory-a7790921.html

 

So the above sets the standard and then someone must have had to sign off on not including a sprinkler system in the refurb.

 

Awful

is the cause of this known yet?

 

also, the picture on the front of todays paper doesnt sit right with me at all. picture of a building in flames while people were still obviously trapped inside.

 

its just fucking wrong, how are they allowed to print that ffs

Edited June 15, 20179 yr by L/H White

Why sad ?

 

As I work on the 26th floor!

learn to base jump

An expert on telly last night said that sprinklers required in Scotland. Only recommended in the rest of uk. Not compulsory. Yet.

 

funny them jocks with fire rules

 

they wouldn't fire rate MDF a few years ago