London Tower Block Engulfed In Flames

[Big City Girl]

I've only just now seen the photos.  It's truly horrific.

 

We've had a lot of phone calls this morning from concerned residents.  Our tower blocks are bang on with regard to fire prevention, but obviously things will need to be looked at to ensure nothing has been missed.  Most tower blocks have a 'stay-put' policy as most fires would be contained within a flat, but I doubt many people would observe that in the case of a fire.

[Latham8WFC]

Just adding to Nowack's comments, the below is taken from one of our Sub-Contractors.

Rainscreen cladding is designed to protect a building from the weather. However, the fundamental elements of the ventilated cavity that enables the rainscreen system, also make it a fire risk. The ventilation required to enable the system to dry out can act as a ‘chimney’ for the fire, causing it to spread.

Current Building Regulations makes provision for this risk. But rainscreen cladding and fire is a minefield of regulation, there are a number of elements within the regulations that completely contradict one another. Ultimately each project has to be taken on its own merits and the design should minimise any risk.

 

I work for a Main Contractor which has recently completed several projects in Pendleton and Salford doing precisely the same works Cladding, Windows and Curtain Walling.

[Guest]

I see Corbyn's making a political point of this fire

[little whitt]

just said on Sky news up to 600 people live in the flats

 

I was thinking 120 flats say x 3 per flat = 360

[Smiley]

Most insulation is fire retardant so I would be surprised. What you do sometimes get is a chimney effect in the ventilated cavity between the insulation and the cladding. If no fire barriers are fitted this can cause a rapid spread of fire. Way to early to speculate though on what is a tragic event.

 

Kevin McCloud from Grand Designs was interviewed on GMB this morning.... he said similar. Cladding - chimney effect, etc.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

The chimney effect is understandable, though a source of fuel is also necessary.

[Duck Egg]

I've only just now seen the photos. It's truly horrific.

 

We've had a lot of phone calls this morning from concerned residents. Our tower blocks are bang on with regard to fire prevention, but obviously things will need to be looked at to ensure nothing has been missed. Most tower blocks have a 'stay-put' policy as most fires would be contained within a flat, but I doubt many people would observe that in the case of a fire.

I was reading that the Police advice to residents was to stay put and put a damp towel at the door. After 9/11 there's no feckin way I'd have stayed put

[gonzo]

problem with insurance is what is enough? Something like this is unprecedented and 5m PI cover you would imagine is enough for most eventualities.

Kin ell me and our kid have just taken out PL insurance for £5 million and we are window cleaners.

 

It cost £270.

 

I'd say they ought to have a bit more cover than that.

 

I worked in cladding and the likes in my former career and can't understand how none Fire retardant application could've been passed.

 

To say modern new builds and refurbs are bang on with this stuff is an understatement.

 

All the ceilings in the building should be fire lined, and insulated to stop fire spreading, false ceilings in corridors with fire breakers, any exposed metal coated in fire retardant spray, timber boxed in and cladded with fireline boards.

 

I can't believe in the modern day a building has gone up like this.

 

Someone is going to prison for this for a very long time If the rumours are true.

Edited June 14, 2017 by gonzo

[Carlos]

I can't get my head around people making political capital out of this so soon, I think I made the same point just last week after London and Manchester. How fucked up is some people's humanity that points scoring is at the forefront of their thoughts?

[Escobarp]

If what the more educated on here in matters of construction are correct that it is a risk

Of the type of cladding applied then after this you

Can only imagine they have to rip every single building apart that has been clad in this way as they simply cannot roam something like this happening again

 

I've never ever seen anything so horrifying in my life. I used to live on the 10th floor of an apartment building and the thought that could happen is scary.

 

Just heard that apparently a fridge exploded and caught fire and that was the catalyst for the fire starting

[Escobarp]

http://www.kctmo.org.uk/news/336/further-statement-on-the-fire-at-grenfell-tower

 

Management company statement. Oh dear oh dear. Read the bit about residents have raised concerns previously about the building and we are investigating

 

Sounds like someone has alot of blood on their hands potentially here

Edited June 14, 2017 by Escobarp

[deane koontz]

Tragic. 12 deceased now likely to be more.

[Guest]

I can't get my head around people making political capital out of this so soon, I think I made the same point just last week after London and Manchester. How fucked up is some people's humanity that points scoring is at the forefront of their thoughts?

A new low

[MalcolmW]

Most insulation is fire retardant so I would be surprised. What you do sometimes get is a chimney effect in the ventilated cavity between the insulation and the cladding. If no fire barriers are fitted this can cause a rapid spread of fire. Way to early to speculate though on what is a tragic event.

 

Apparently the junctions of the concrete walls were fluted, but the cladding was flat, causing a chimney effect at each corner.

And of course the cladding itself seems to be found inadequate.

[little whitt]

think most die of the smoke before the fire gets to them

[Zico]

Seems the choice of cladding was more about aesthetics than safety

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-fire-cause-improve-kensington-block-flats-appearance-blaze-24-storey-west-a7789951.html

[Escobarp]

States in that article not all the insulation is "the more expensive fire retardant type"

[birch-chorley]

Whilst some of the responsibility may sit with the contractor surely the work needs signing off by the local authority/ building inspectors

 

They had to sign off my mate opening up his kitchen & dining room last year so I'd be surprised if they aren't heavily involved in a big project like this

 

I'm speculating mind, it's not my industry

Edited June 14, 2017 by birch-chorley

[birch-chorley]

Hearing that a women threw we baby out of a window from about 9 floors up and somebody caught it

 

Poor baby must be an orphan now

[Mounts Kipper]

Grim and tragic news , can't get my head round having the bottle to chuck your kid off a balcony from 10 floors up it's made me shudder all day.

[Dr Faustus]

Grim and tragic news , can't get my head round having the bottle to chuck your kid off a balcony from 10 floors up it's made me shudder all day.

Sat looking at 3 blocks, and I don't think I could do it.

 

I also fear this may attract the wrong type of attention.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Kin ell me and our kid have just taken out PL insurance for £5 million and we are window cleaners.

It cost £270.

I'd say they ought to have a bit more cover than that.

I worked in cladding and the likes in my former career and can't understand how none Fire retardant application could've been passed.

To say modern new builds and refurbs are bang on with this stuff is an understatement.

All the ceilings in the building should be fire lined, and insulated to stop fire spreading, false ceilings in corridors with fire breakers, any exposed metal coated in fire retardant spray, timber boxed in and cladded with fireline boards.

I can't believe in the modern day a building has gone up like this.

Someone is going to prison for this for a very long time If the rumours are true.

I had to have 5 million cover for a couple of jobs I did. Would imagine a big organisation would need more, but dunno if that is the case.

[Marc505]

Om just properly catching up with this story now what an absolutely awful tragedy its hard to watch these news reports. In time this will be exposed as a national scandal, can't believe what I'm seeing

[jayjayoghani]

Sounds like the insulation was polystyrene, well-known for accelerating fires.

 

There are alternatives such as PIR or Rockwool but I guess more expensive or deemed unsuitable.

[Big City Girl]

I know the main thing is to prevent fires like this, but I hope somebody can come up with some alternative rescue.  Fireman's ladders, I believe can only reach about 7 floors and that's if they can get near enough.  But there must be some other things that could be tried for those faced with the horrific choice of burn or jump (sorry to be blunt).  Cherry pickers, nets, I really don't know, thinking out loud but surely more lives could be saved?