Politics

[bolty58]

Based on Trump's recent meetings, he could quite easily have told Juncker that every EU import would include a free go on his Missus, but then 30 minutes later he'll simply declare that he "mis-spoke" and is going to nuke Brussels at Christmas.

 

Not sure how long it'll take for his supporters to realise that you cannot believe a single word he says.

 

 

You can believe the end game. All just negotiating tactics.

[Spider]

You can believe the end game. All just negotiating tactics.

 

He doesn't have an end game.

 

He flies by the seat of his enormous pants powered entirely by his ego.

 

How's that wall of his coming along?

[birch-chorley]

For a start, didn't Trump exclude cars? "Non - auto" or some such phrase unless I imagined it.

I’ve not seen that

 

Anyway, aren’t European cars largely irrelevant? The likes of Mercedes and BMW make cars in America for that market so no tariffs apply on cars anyway. They could slap a 100% tarrif on cars from the EU and it wouldn’t change the price of a BMW or Mercedes in the states

 

It’s been posted loads of times now, not sure why your choosing to ignore it

Edited July 26, 2018 by birch-chorley

[ZiggyStardust]

I’ve not seen that

 

Anyway, aren’t European cars largely irrelevant? The likes of Mercedes and BMW make cars in America for that market so no tariffs apply on cars anyway. They could slap a 100% tarrif on cars from the EU and it wouldn’t change the price of a BMW or Mercedes in the states

 

It’s been posted loads of times now, not sure why your choosing to ignore it

Those damn facts.

 

When we inquired with Edmunds.com, an automotive website and analytical group, they sent us data showing that about 330,000 of the 1.35 million German cars sold in the United States in 2017 had been built here. That leaves about 980,000 German cars built elsewhere but sold in the United States.

 

To take one example, according to the Center for Automotive Research, BMW made 371,000 cars in the United States in 2017, exported 272,000 of these, sold the remaining 99,000 U.S.-built cars in the U.S. market, and imported roughly 255,000 cars for U.S. buyers in 2017.

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jul/02/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrong-mercedes-bmw-import-cars-us-mil/

[birch-chorley]

Just had a look into it further

 

Apparently the BMW plant in the US is it’s largest in the world and it makes all of its global SUV’s (X5 etc), you won’t find an X series made in the EU according to this (apart fromX1). The US plant made 411,000 cars last year, many of which are shipped all over the world including back to the EU. On the flip side only 365,000 BMW’s and minis were sold in the US in the same year giving the company a NET deficit of nearly 50k cars sold in the US (2016)

 

An interesting piece on CNN...

 

https://money.cnn.com/2018/06/11/news/economy/german-cars-trump-trade/index.html

 

“German automakers sold 1.35 million vehicles in the United States in 2017, about 8% of total US car sales. Of those, only 494,000 were exported from Germany to the United States — 25% less than in 2013, according to the German carmakers association.

Most of the remainder were made in the United States and in Mexico, which has a free trade agreement with the United States. GM (GM) and Ford (F) also make cars in Mexico for delivery to the United States.”

 

“It's a booming business: The total number of cars produced by German automakers in the United States has increased by 180,000 since 2013 to 804,000, according to the German carmakers association. Half are exported to markets including Europe and Asia

 

So German car manufacturers make 800k cars in the US and sell 1.3m cars in the US. It’s just that some cars are made in the US for global markets including the EU

 

In summary, tariffs won’t do anyone any favours

[Guest]

He doesn't have an end game.

 

He flies by the seat of his enormous pants powered entirely by his ego.

 

How's that wall of his coming along?

Haven’t they started it?

[Mounts Kipper]

Isnt it amazing what occurs when someone threatens to pull the rug from under the EU they soon change position, they have principle when it suits but that disappears as soon as their arses are on the line. Let us hope someone has the courage to finally call their bluff in the Brexit negotiations.    

Edited July 26, 2018 by Mounts Kipper

[Jol_BWFC]

Isnt it amazing what occurs when someone threatens to pull the rug from under the EU they soon change position, they have principle when it suits but that disappears as soon as their arses are on the line. Let us hope someone has the courage to finally call their bluff in the Brexit negotiations.

Depends on bargaining position, as with all negotiation. The US has a strong hand, so the EU stance is entirely different to Brexit, where the EU is in a stronger position.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Jol_BWFC

[Ani]

Until we know what our final position is we can not negotiate trade deals.

 

Which is why the Brexiters have to either support the May deal or come up with a detailed alternative. Anything else is a distraction.

 

Boris...where are you ?

[tyldesley_white]

A statement from Mnuchin from this morning (about the EU deal)

 

"I thought we had a deal" , "There was an agreement in principle" (on steel/aluminum and retaliatory). "I think we made very big progress"

 

"I thought we had a deal" and "I think we made very big progress" are this statements not slightly contradictory ?

[Ani]

Isnt it amazing what occurs when someone threatens to pull the rug from under the EU they soon change position, they have principle when it suits but that disappears as soon as their arses are on the line. Let us hope someone has the courage to finally call their bluff in the Brexit negotiations.

They have opened negotiations to get a better deal for their future.

 

We do not seem capable of agreeing what we want to negotiate as our future. One day you ar saying the EU is a slow moving beaureaucratic monster now problem is them reacting quickly

 

If we had announced exactly the same you would be proclaiming a great victory for Brexit.

[gonzo]

https://www.bbc.com/news/44964521

 

Nice

[Sweep]

https://www.bbc.com/news/44964521

 

Nice

I listened to Barnier and Raab on the radio earlier, it was ridiculous. Neither really said anything of note for either side to get excited about.

 

I'm worried that we've possibly already conceded too much, still I suppose there is no point fretting, at least we've got TM on the job now ????

[Boby Brno]

Does Barnier have the backing of all the member states in the EU? We are one nation (devided) that is negotiating with, it seems, one man. How much of a mandate does he really have?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

An interesting point that.

I still reckon we could chuck a real spanner in the works and announce we are looking at creating a free trade system that is on a level playing field. No overbearing levels of bureaucracy, just old fashioned good neighbours, not sucking the life out of one another, but just trading on good terms because I makes sense.

Invite European countries or indeed anyone else that would consider it beneficial.

[Sweep]

Does Barnier have the backing of all the member states in the EU? We are one nation (devided) that is negotiating with, it seems, one man. How much of a mandate does he really have?

He kept referring to "the 27" today, so I guess he's speaking for all.....This might change when we get to the nitty gritty though I reckon, as our exit will affect each country in a different way. Some won't give a fuck if we leave and others will be really bothered.

[Winchester White]

He kept referring to "the 27" today, so I guess he's speaking for all.....This might change when we get to the nitty gritty though I reckon, as our exit will affect each country in a different way. Some won't give a fuck if we leave and others will be really bothered.

He is negotiating on behalf of the EU but whilst he and especially Junker hold a lot of power, the heads of state of important EU countries have massive sway.

[Boby Brno]

Personally, I doubt the good people of the EU have either any idea or interest in what’s going on whilst, here, everyone seems to have an opinion.

We are disadvantaged by our division and the EU seem to ‘hold all the cards’ by their presumed unity.

Our negotiators, whoever it may be tomorrow, need to expose that presumed unity.

[Guest]

WTO Rules, OK

[Mounts Kipper]

https://www.bbc.com/news/44964521

 

Nice

It’s getting close to walking away it’s really not worth time and effort continuing negotiations let’s just do that and use WTO rules and continue to trade for 10 years tariff free leave the door open for the EU to come and talk when they wake up.

[Salford Trotter]

It’s getting close to walking away it’s really not worth time and effort continuing negotiations let’s just do that and use WTO rules and continue to trade for 10 years tariff free leave the door open for the EU to come and talk when they wake up.

"Tarrif free" we will pay tarrifs under WTO rules

[bolty58]

I’ve not seen that

 

Anyway, aren’t European cars largely irrelevant? The likes of Mercedes and BMW make cars in America for that market so no tariffs apply on cars anyway. They could slap a 100% tarrif on cars from the EU and it wouldn’t change the price of a BMW or Mercedes in the states

 

It’s been posted loads of times now, not sure why your choosing to ignore it

 

Because I can.

[bolty58]

"Tarrif free" we will pay tarrifs under WTO rules

 

 

Tarrifying.

[Sweep]

"Tarrif free" we will pay tarrifs under WTO rules

I think Mounts has read one of those "leave" reports that said if we leave and go to WTO, that we would still retain tariff free trade for an extended period of time (up to 10 years) - this has already been shot down as not possible, by the WTO and the EU.......Mounts will know better though

[Cheese]

I think Mounts has read one of those "leave" reports that said if we leave and go to WTO, that we would still retain tariff free trade for an extended period of time (up to 10 years) - this has already been shot down as not possible, by the WTO and the EU.......Mounts will know better though

 

Not only that, but defaulting to WTO rules would be a long drawn out process anyway, as our current terms of WTO membership are dependent on our membership of the EU and we'd have to apply for our terms to be changed. That would require agreement from all the other WTO member countries, and several of them have already said they will object.

 

Also, we'd still be abandoning the European Medicines Agency, Euratom, Open Skies etc. and the WTO does not act as an alternative to any of these things.

 

Basically, this idiotic "We should just abandon negotiations and default to WTO rules" is just as pie-in-the-sky as every single other proposal put forward by Brexiters. It's utter bollocks. This is why we're almost certainly heading for a No Deal exit, and an absolute shitstorm that will last way beyond the forseeable future. About time these people started talking some fucking sense and accepting reality. They know we're fucked, they just can't say it out loud, so they keep playing pretend like a bunch of fucking toddlers. First World governments don't talk about stock-piling medicine and food unless they know the shit is about to hit the fan.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Cheese