Casino Posted January 9, 2024 Posted January 9, 2024 Just clocked there maybe a bit of nimbyism going on outside her defence remit but not got time to dig... Ill forgive her anyway Quote
DirtySanchez Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 17 hours ago, Casino said: Starmer was in charge of the cps Its his fault, havent you heard Thing is whilst there will be people wrongly convicted, are there people who were rightfully convicted? If they are doing a blanket overturn of convictions how do you differentiate between the two? Can see this turning into a right mess Quote
Zico Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 13 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: Thing is whilst there will be people wrongly convicted, are there people who were rightfully convicted? If they are doing a blanket overturn of convictions how do you differentiate between the two? Can see this turning into a right mess I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that the flawed IT system actually flagged anyone of being on the take no need for a mess, all seems fairly straightforward to me Quote
DirtySanchez Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 21 minutes ago, Zico said: I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that the flawed IT system actually flagged anyone of being on the take no need for a mess, all seems fairly straightforward to me Could that be because all the talk has been about it being flawed though so the assumption is everyone is innocent Let's say you were on the take, the system flags it up but maybe over exaggerated it because it was flawed It will be a mess if they are talking about bringing in emergency legislation to deal with a specific group of people Lord Ken Macdonald - director of public prosecutions from 2003-08, before Sir Keir Starmer took over - says it's "unprecedented" for the government to overturn the convictions of the victims of the Post Office scandal. Speaking to Radio 4's World at One programme, Macdonald also points to there being a "serious rule of law implications". He worries how the blanket overturning of convictions - done for the "best of reasons" in this case - will be used as a precedent for other cases in the future. "Once the dam is burst", it's unclear what process may be used in the future, he says. Quote
Ani Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 1 hour ago, Zico said: I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that the flawed IT system actually flagged anyone of being on the take no need for a mess, all seems fairly straightforward to me It flagged up 'Cash shortfalls' which the postmasters were expected to make up. I thought the whole point was that it did flag people as being on the take. Quote
Ani Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 57 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said: Could that be because all the talk has been about it being flawed though so the assumption is everyone is innocent Let's say you were on the take, the system flags it up but maybe over exaggerated it because it was flawed It will be a mess if they are talking about bringing in emergency legislation to deal with a specific group of people Lord Ken Macdonald - director of public prosecutions from 2003-08, before Sir Keir Starmer took over - says it's "unprecedented" for the government to overturn the convictions of the victims of the Post Office scandal. Speaking to Radio 4's World at One programme, Macdonald also points to there being a "serious rule of law implications". He worries how the blanket overturning of convictions - done for the "best of reasons" in this case - will be used as a precedent for other cases in the future. "Once the dam is burst", it's unclear what process may be used in the future, he says. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I wonder how much fraud has been missed , if the system is flawed assume could work both ways. However even if someone had been on the take and the only evidence is the Horizon system then that prosecution has to be classed as 'unsafe' as the source is so unreliable. Quote
Zico Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 5 minutes ago, Ani said: It flagged up 'Cash shortfalls' which the postmasters were expected to make up. I thought the whole point was that it did flag people as being on the take. well yes, but they were all incorrect, as far as I know, I thought that was the point, that no one was on the take so then don't exonerate anyone who didn't make up the shortfall if they were on the take, they woudn't have bothered sorted Quote
Cheese Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 (edited) AT LAST!!! A BREXIT BENEFIT!! BIVALVES BELIEVE IN BRITAIN!! Edited January 10, 2024 by Cheese Quote
Ani Posted January 10, 2024 Posted January 10, 2024 6 hours ago, Zico said: well yes, but they were all incorrect, as far as I know, I thought that was the point, that no one was on the take so then don't exonerate anyone who didn't make up the shortfall if they were on the take, they woudn't have bothered sorted Good piece about it on Radio 5 Live. Basically reflecting what we have discussed and there is a risk we go from unfair prosecutions to unfair acquittals. Couple of Post Masters on talking about the hate they have had when prosecuted from people in the local villages. Quote
Zico Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 7 hours ago, Ani said: Good piece about it on Radio 5 Live. Basically reflecting what we have discussed and there is a risk we go from unfair prosecutions to unfair acquittals. Couple of Post Masters on talking about the hate they have had when prosecuted from people in the local villages. I think it's better, in this instance, to go with the outcome that might see a small amount, if any, guilty folk get away with it, than leave 100s officially seen as guilty The other option is to investigate each case individually, that will take a long time, and we already know the system used to judged them was broken Or Wipre the slate clean, exonerate, then investigate them all again so they can at least go with the innocent till proven guilty point of view There's too many innocent folk who need justice and compensation now, before they die Quote
Duck Egg Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 ^ Absolutely. Better one guilty party walk free than hundreds are wrongfully convicted. Any case where Horizon was used in evidence has to be considered unsafe now, so scrap the lot. The TV drama highlighted something to me as well. The difference in being a sub postmaster in say rural Lincolnshire and then in somewhere like Huyton. The latter must have been on pins permanently! Quote
gonzo Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 19 minutes ago, Cheese said: Ian Hislop is superb. He really is. Fell in a hole of watching stuff on HIGNFY other day. Hes brilliant. There needs to be more like him. Loved the way he pulls him on the claim thing. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 20 minutes ago, Cheese said: Ian Hislop is superb. Hislop spot on the post office knew all about what was going on and covered up to save PO money and even worse the folk who knew gained bonus’s while knowingly prosecuting and taking money off innocent post masters. Why are these people not taken to court? It’s same as the PPE scandal and fraudulent behaviour for financial gain…. Get these fuckers into court. Quote
Traf Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 Snake Berry, my local MP. An utter self-serving piece of shit. Quote
Casino Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 36 minutes ago, Traf said: Snake Berry, my local MP. A perfect example of Tory MPs post Johnson Quote
Ani Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 3 hours ago, Zico said: I think it's better, in this instance, to go with the outcome that might see a small amount, if any, guilty folk get away with it, than leave 100s officially seen as guilty The other option is to investigate each case individually, that will take a long time, and we already know the system used to judged them was broken Or Wipre the slate clean, exonerate, then investigate them all again so they can at least go with the innocent till proven guilty point of view There's too many innocent folk who need justice and compensation now, before they die They were saying the plan is to get anyone who gets the compo to sign that they did nothing wrong, if later it is shown they did they will have committed fraud Quote
Casino Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 i see we learned yesterday that trains are set to take longer to get from london to manc AND there will be less seats available wonderful Quote
MickyD Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 Spent longer than I ought to have done watching Sky News's coverage of the Post Office inquiry today. To be fair, it was on the big screens in a bar in Benidorm. Thing is, the guy being questioned, Steven Bradshaw, one of the lead investigators working for the Post Office was scouse so as soon as he answered the first question he sounded guilty. Quote
Spider Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 26 minutes ago, Casino said: i see we learned yesterday that trains are set to take longer to get from london to manc AND there will be less seats available wonderful HS2wats Quote
Spider Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 What about that Labour MP though eh? Eh? Quote
ZiggyStardust Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 26 minutes ago, Casino said: i see we learned yesterday that trains are set to take longer to get from london to manc AND there will be less seats available wonderful If only there was a high speed line, that would both decrease the time taken, whilst adding additional capacity. Quote
MickyD Posted January 11, 2024 Posted January 11, 2024 (edited) Something I didn't understand about the revelation about the new trains having 200 few seats than existing trains is why can't they just add an extra couple of intermediate carriages per unit ordered. IE, a unit consists of a front and rear power unit and x number of carriages. Up the order to front and rear power units and x+2 carriages. In the scheme of things they won't even notice the extra spend Edited January 11, 2024 by MickyD Quote
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