Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Zico]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

Then let them do it. We keep hearing how shit Trump is yet all the countries speaking out about peace including us and Ukraine are adamant they want America. Surely Europe can make up Americas shortfall especially with a deal for the mineral farms waiting to be pounced on. 

aye

point is

a growing number of Ukraines may well want the war to end, but not on Trump's terms

but it's not ending without the US on board

they want peace

but that's probably not really what Trump will deliver in the long term

[Sweep]

11 minutes ago, Zico said:

 

but that's probably not really what Trump will deliver in the long term

[royal white]

34 minutes ago, Zico said:

aye

point is

a growing number of Ukraines may well want the war to end, but not on Trump's terms

but it's not ending without the US on board

they want peace

but that's probably not really what Trump will deliver in the long term

Has anyone from Europe attempted to have talks with Russia? I think the majority on here are in agreement that the way to end a war is around a table. All we have heard so far is that many more billions from Europe are to be spent on weapons and potentially boots on the ground. Sounds quite the opposite to wanting peace. 

[boltonboris]

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Has anyone from Europe attempted to have talks with Russia? I think the majority on here are in agreement that the way to end a war is around a table. All we have heard so far is that many more billions from Europe are to be spent on weapons and potentially boots on the ground. Sounds quite the opposite to wanting peace. 

We keep hearing this though mate about "Why do you not want Peace - Trump wants Peace" etc.. But everybody does too.. The most sustainable way to achieve it in the future, is to deter Russia from continuing their invasion - Fuck off back to Russia and we can all down tools.

At the end of the day, Russia could stop the war tomorrow. Ukraine can't. They're being invaded

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

32 minutes ago, Sweep said:

This is, in part, why he and Vance are currently so hostile towards Zelensky and Europe

He sold it to his base as a walk in the park to sort - force Ukraine to capitulate and use as the security guarantee the presence of American employees based in Ukraine to extract the minerals, except he's not yet getting what he wants and the longer it goes on, the greater the risk of him looking hapless

[royal white]

11 minutes ago, boltonboris said:

We keep hearing this though mate about "Why do you not want Peace - Trump wants Peace" etc.. But everybody does too.. The most sustainable way to achieve it in the future, is to deter Russia from continuing their invasion - Fuck off back to Russia and we can all down tools.

At the end of the day, Russia could stop the war tomorrow. Ukraine can't. They're being invaded

So, as per my previous, why is no one from Europe attempting to talk to them?

[boltonboris]

20 minutes ago, royal white said:

So, as per my previous, why is no one from Europe attempting to talk to them?

I'm not sure if they have, or haven't - Russia has accused the UK of "blocking" the peace negotiations. So I'm presuming we were involved in some of the discussions, which were probably just us, along with everybody else, saying to Russia that their terms were unreasonable.

If CLDJT really wanted peace, he wouldn't be poking Ukraine and thus being an enabler to Russia's continued aggression

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Zico said:

aye

point is

a growing number of Ukraines may well want the war to end, but not on Trump's terms

but it's not ending without the US on board

they want peace

but that's probably not really what Trump will deliver in the long term

Exactly what I was coming on to say. 

Be interesting to read what percentage want peace based on giving up all the land they've lost to Russia, being prevented from ever joining NATO, having no security guarantee and handing over their mineral rights to the US (as a starting point for negotiations). I'd hazard a guess that it's a very low number. 

[kent_white]

40 minutes ago, royal white said:

So, as per my previous, why is no one from Europe attempting to talk to them?

The Russians are highly unlikely to talk to the Europeans as we won't just roll over and give them what they want. 

Maybe Viktor Orban should have a go. 

[kent_white]

Weird that they're doing this after you've withdrawn intelligence support isn't it? You massively incompetent orange fuckwit! 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2025 by kent_white

[Winchester White]

I see Trump has called on Russia to stop pounding Ukraine and get round the table with threats of sanctions on Russia. Fucking finally you orange plonker!

[Farrelli]

1 hour ago, royal white said:

Has anyone from Europe attempted to have talks with Russia? I think the majority on here are in agreement that the way to end a war is around a table. All we have heard so far is that many more billions from Europe are to be spent on weapons and potentially boots on the ground. Sounds quite the opposite to wanting peace. 

Many leaders tried to engage them before they invaded but Putin was already set. No matter how you want to spin this, Russia was not going to listen and they ultimately invaded a neighbouring country. Those are the uncomfortable facts.

[Greg_BWFC]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Many leaders tried to engage them before they invaded but Putin was already set. No matter how you want to spin this, Russia was not going to listen and they ultimately invaded a neighbouring country. Those are the uncomfortable facts.

Exactly, no point, he won't listen.

[Farrelli]

54 minutes ago, royal white said:

So, as per my previous, why is no one from Europe attempting to talk to them?

Why did Hitler not listen when we tried to talk to him before WW2 ? It would have saved so many lives.

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Exactly, no point, he won't listen.

Yep. The only thing Putin understands is force. Hence why Europe have to stand together.  The US will have to live with their decision to back Russia. 

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Why did Hitler not listen when we tried to talk to him before WW2 ? It would have saved so many lives.

To be fair - I don't think Putin is anywhere near being a Hitler. I don't think he's bent on world domination. But I do think he'd like to bring the old USSR under his sphere of influence. 

[royal white]

18 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Exactly what I was coming on to say. 

Be interesting to read what percentage want peace based on giving up all the land they've lost to Russia, being prevented from ever joining NATO, having no security guarantee and handing over their mineral rights to the US (as a starting point for negotiations). I'd hazard a guess that it's a very low number. 

So we have no idea then if anyone has really attempted a talk. 
 

So we have Trump who thinks he can negotiate a peace deal, which will likely give up some land to Russia .

 

Then we have Europe who want peace deal but have not yet attempted to talk to anyone but commit to buying a shot more loads weapons. 
 

Eventually it’s likely to come down to VZ.  What do you think he wants? The obvious answer is a bit of both. In reality it’s likely to be one or the other. 

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Why did Hitler not listen when we tried to talk to him before WW2 ? It would have saved so many lives.

🤦🏻

[Greg_BWFC]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Yep. The only thing Putin understands is force. Hence why Europe have to stand together.  The US will have to live with their decision to back Russia. 

That's all any bully understands.

Makes me laugh reading noises coming out of Russia showing "concern" at how the UK/EU is increasing military spending.

Good, let them worry.

[royal white]

6 minutes ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Exactly, no point, he won't listen.

Then at least every leader can say “we had talks they didn’t work, we must now plan our next course of action” 

[kent_white]

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

So we have no idea then if anyone has really attempted a talk. 
 

So we have Trump who thinks he can negotiate a peace deal, which will likely give up some land to Russia .

 

Then we have Europe who want peace deal but have not yet attempted to talk to anyone but commit to buying a shot more loads weapons. 
 

Eventually it’s likely to come down to VZ.  What do you think he wants? The obvious answer is a bit of both. In reality it’s likely to be one or the other. 

I'm happy to go with whatever VZ and the Ukrainian people want. 

I would be hugely surprised if nobody from Europe has attempted some sort of dialogue with Russia. 

Here's what Claude AI said when I asked it if Europe had attempted any dialogue by the way..... 

"Since the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, there have been various diplomatic efforts and dialogue attempts between European leaders and Russia, though these have varied in frequency, scope, and effectiveness over time.

Several key European leaders maintained communication channels with President Putin, especially in the early stages of the conflict:

- French President Emmanuel Macron held multiple phone calls with Putin, particularly in the first few months of the war
- German Chancellor Olaf Scholz similarly maintained periodic communication with Putin
- Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer met with Putin in Moscow in April 2022
- Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has maintained closer relations with Russia compared to other EU leaders

However, these dialogue attempts faced significant challenges:

1. As the war progressed, direct high-level communication between most European leaders and Russia decreased
2. The EU imposed multiple sanctions packages against Russia
3. Many diplomatic channels were scaled back or suspended
4. Peace talks between Ukraine and Russia that took place in Belarus and Turkey in early 2022 did not lead to lasting solutions

There have been some mediation efforts by third parties, including Turkey's attempts to facilitate grain export agreements, and various peace proposals from countries like China and Brazil, though these haven't led to significant breakthroughs.

The effectiveness of dialogue has been limited by fundamental disagreements about the war itself, Ukraine's sovereignty, and conditions for potential negotiations."

 

[royal white]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I'm happy to go with whatever VZ and the Ukrainian people want. 

I would be hugely surprised if nobody from Europe has attempted some sort of dialogue with Russia. 

Here's what Claude AI said when I asked it if Europe had attempted any dialogue by the way..... 

"Since the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, there have been various diplomatic efforts and dialogue attempts between European leaders and Russia, though these have varied in frequency, scope, and effectiveness over time.

Several key European leaders maintained communication channels with President Putin, especially in the early stages of the conflict:

- French President Emmanuel Macron held multiple phone calls with Putin, particularly in the first few months of the war
- German Chancellor Olaf Scholz similarly maintained periodic communication with Putin
- Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer met with Putin in Moscow in April 2022
- Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has maintained closer relations with Russia compared to other EU leaders

However, these dialogue attempts faced significant challenges:

1. As the war progressed, direct high-level communication between most European leaders and Russia decreased
2. The EU imposed multiple sanctions packages against Russia
3. Many diplomatic channels were scaled back or suspended
4. Peace talks between Ukraine and Russia that took place in Belarus and Turkey in early 2022 did not lead to lasting solutions

There have been some mediation efforts by third parties, including Turkey's attempts to facilitate grain export agreements, and various peace proposals from countries like China and Brazil, though these haven't led to significant breakthroughs.

The effectiveness of dialogue has been limited by fundamental disagreements about the war itself, Ukraine's sovereignty, and conditions for potential negotiations."

 

When you look at that over 3 years between multiple countries it doesn’t really amount to much does and the majority of talks appear to be in the early stages of the war. It looks like Europe have just been prepared to sit back and throw money at it and hope for the best  
 

VZ seems to want what both America and Europe are attempting to offer. I think it’s likely to come down to one or the other (or one and a bit of the other) 

Its frightening that a country 1000s of miles away which is trillions in debt is “holding all the cards” 

[Bertie]

1 hour ago, royal white said:

So, as per my previous, why is no one from Europe attempting to talk to them?

Russia invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn’t want to cede their territory to Russia.

Europe/UK will back the democratic will of Ukraine.

Russia doesn’t appear to want to withdraw….yet.

What’s there to talk about?

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Bertie said:

Russia invaded Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn’t want to cede their territory to Russia.

Europe/UK will back the democratic will of Ukraine.

Russia doesn’t appear to want to withdraw….yet.

What’s there to talk about?

To simply put it Ukraine want Americas backing. 
 

America want peace without a prolonged war. That will mean conceding land.

Theres plenty to talk about.

[Bertie]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

To simply put it Ukraine want Americas backing. 
 

America want peace without a prolonged war. That will mean conceding land.

Theres plenty to talk about.

As each day goes by I honestly think the US could get sidelined in the process, or at least their role significantly diminished. Their actions so far have clearly been pushing for Ukraine to capitulate/surrender…..which is unacceptable to them.  Not a serious option in finding a quick resolution for a sustainable peace. As a minimum need to be much more even handed to force both parties to compromise.  Perhaps Trumpys statement this morning is a belated step in the right direction.