Port Vale (A)

[BoltonPro15]

3 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

 

Elaborate then!?

What has improved?

Did he not take over a club ready to be promoted, IE took us as far as he could and we needed someone else to take us to the next level?

Performances are a pretty good indicator I would say!? I do actually care how we play - not just about the result.

So we tossed off last season then, glad you agree with that one atleast.

No idea who we would get in - it's hypothetical. 

[BoltonPro15]

10 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

 

You're obviously a fan of SS and fair fucks.

Where's the improvement since he's come in?

I don't think any players have improved and every single loan player has declined.

[bolty58]

21 minutes ago, BoltonPro15 said:

You're obviously a fan of SS and fair fucks.

Where's the improvement since he's come in?

I don't think any players have improved and every single loan player has declined.

I'll point it out to you when we succeed at Wembley.

[bolty58]

1 hour ago, BoltonPro15 said:

This bloke is the worst manager in our recent history.

He's taken over a team ready to take the next step and be promoted and turned us in to a whimsical, pathetic, shambles of a club.

Can anybody honestly tell us what has improved since he's joined?

Don't give me a load of bollocks about how we've been unbeaten for X amount of games because we've all watched and seen how shit we are.

We tossed off last season when he came in, which has gone completely under the radar.

The only way this will be proven wrong is if we get promoted, which I highly doubt we will.

It sounds mental to say but.... would we have a better chance of going up if we made a managerial change now?

P.S - I know this isn't a realistic option but surely even the most loyal SS would make this change now?

Fucking hell. You really are mental.

How many fucking examples of managerial changes being disastrous do you need?

[Ani]

We played hoof ball from early on some clearly something we had thought about. SS said in the week about finding a way to win.

What fucked me off was that given it was planned had we not practised it ? Dalby had none of the other players near him to pick up any bits and pieces. Apter was abysmal, I was happy he started as Burstow is not a wide player but Apter was even worse. 
Some of the balls played by Toal were shocking. The keeper got it in wrong half of the pitch with his kicks. Where was the keeper for the goal ? 
 

Vale were better than us today. To put that in perspective they lost last home to Bradford 0-2. Bradford had 32 shots in the game 13 on target. Today we had 8 shots, 2 on target. 

Edited Sunday at 01:23 by Ani

[Kane57]

I think Johnston is an appalling footballer but Toal ain't far off

[boogs]

Just catching up with this thread. Hope everyone can get a brew and calm down a bit this morning 😂

We were undeniably fucking guff yesterday, no two ways about it, and that simply isn't good enough if your going to wear that famous shirt, but talk of things not being right with problems in the dressing room seem OTT to me. It's only a couple of weeks since folk were pointing out how "together" they all looked when that 3rd goal went in against Wycombe with bench cam. 

Truth is, theyre human. They'd have been dead inside if they didn't get giddy as fuck then, and they weren't wrong to look pissed of with themselves yesterday. I should think they were rightly embarrassed of themselves. 

We've been a bit shit for weeks, this unbeaten run masked that with draws and late winners. Improvements definitely needed, but im not sure we should be getting out the rope and stool just yet. 

[bwfc4ife]

It’s a horses for courses job. Last time we had that shit run, SS started experimenting with different setups and we went to three at the back. We got a couple of draws and the winner Wigan but the football was turgid. 
 

I thought at the time yesterday we’d have benefited from three midfielders but every time in possession we just pinged it hopelessly forward and we have not got the players for that. You’ve got to get around the target man and win second balls. Erhahon and Simon’s way too deep so the ball is cleared and easy to deal with. 
 

I think we still could’ve played in and around their final third and then tossed it in the box. We seemed hopelessly lacking in ideas and it was like watching a game in the last 5 mins when you’re losing from the get go. 
 

I like Schuey and want him to do well. Sometimes his decisions baffle me, sometimes they win us a game. He’s a gambler and more often than not it comes off. Just got it wrong yesterday. That’s all. The seasons not over and I’m sure we’ll surprise a few with some results. This season has been a difficult watch for most.

[Lostock Whites]

13 minutes ago, Kane57 said:

I think Johnston is an appalling footballer but Toal ain't far off

I think one of our biggest problems is the technical ability of the defence.

If we were a Lincoln let's say and have no possession and play differently then it's not really a problem. But we don't.

We average 60% of the ball, 2nd only behind Cardiff. I know Cardiff have more of a Championship level squad than us. But in comparison I saw their centre back a few weeks ago run the length of the pitch and score against Doncaster.

I'm not asking our defenders to do that, but my point is that our defence is nowhere near good enough to start our attacks. Johnston, Toal & Forino are 3 of the clumsiest players on the ball in the whole squad.

Don't want to keep looking backwards, but Santos, as much criticism he got, was miles above any of our current defenders particularly in terms of distributing the ball

We haven't changed any of our centre backs this season and although Schuey has mostly tightened it up the weaknesses are all to see.

I'd make it out No1 priority next season regardless of what happens to get a quality centre back and goalkeeper in.

The 2 areas that every attack starts from.

[barrycowdrill]

Bradford played there a week and a half ago. Same pitch, same state 

won 2 nil, had 32 shots at goal, 13 on target 

JSL 

[gonzo]

7 hours ago, BoltonPro15 said:

You're obviously a fan of SS and fair fucks.

Where's the improvement since he's come in?

I don't think any players have improved and every single loan player has declined.

Depends what you're judging your improvement on?

Last season was a shit show. SS had to change the whole system, mantra and introduce a full new attacking line up as well as midfield and goalkeeper.

We've improved dramatically from last season and we are in same league position as we were the season before.

Nobody on earth could account for the season Lincoln have had.

The loans have declined? ACD set the league on fire. Blackett-Taylor would've been not far behind. Forss got injured.

Nobody can account for losing both ACD and Blackett-Taylor in the same season.

Burstow was phenomenal for a period. Had a bit of slump in form then got injured. Kenny has been just fine. Cissoko hit and miss.

Of the signings Dalby has been brilliant, EE a stalwart in the midfield, Gale I'm not his biggest fan but he's had a decent contribution at times.

 

Simons after a bright start probably been a let down.

In all I'd say it's been a pretty decent return from the recruitment team. Some work, some don't. But to say nothing has improved from what Evatt left behind is for the birds.

For me, he's halfway through his project. We must address the Toal and GJ situation and the goalkeeping situation.

It's not all good, it's not all bad. We are in danger of the season fizzling out unless we pick up some form, which over the course of the season we generally have. We just haven't been able to string a mega convincing run together like Cardiff and Lincoln. But it is what it is.

It's a shit, industrial division and a war of attrition. Lincoln have nailed it, Cardiff have the quality.

We are top of the shop of the next batch with a team littered with loans and players Nobody else wants and get injured every week.

Yesterday was our first loss in 14 matches. It's not pretty sure, but fuck me it's nowhere near as bad folk think.

Have a look at the chasing pack and the rest of league 1. It's utter indifferent turd, just like us.

 

[barrycowdrill]

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Depends what you're judging your improvement on?

Last season was a shit show. SS had to change the whole system, mantra and introduce a full new attacking line up as well as midfield and goalkeeper.

We've improved dramatically from last season and we are in same league position as we were the season before.

Nobody on earth could account for the season Lincoln have had.

The loans have declined? ACD set the league on fire. Blackett-Taylor would've been not far behind. Forss got injured.

Nobody can account for losing both ACD and Blackett-Taylor in the same season.

Burstow was phenomenal for a period. Had a bit of slump in form then got injured. Kenny has been just fine. Cissoko hit and miss.

Of the signings Dalby has been brilliant, EE a stalwart in the midfield, Gale I'm not his biggest fan but he's had a decent contribution at times.

 

Simons after a bright start probably been a let down.

In all I'd say it's been a pretty decent return from the recruitment team. Some work, some don't. But to say nothing has improved from what Evatt left behind is for the birds.

For me, he's halfway through his project. We must address the Toal and GJ situation and the goalkeeping situation.

It's not all good, it's not all bad. We are in danger of the season fizzling out unless we pick up some form, which over the course of the season we generally have. We just haven't been able to string a mega convincing run together like Cardiff and Lincoln. But it is what it is.

It's a shit, industrial division and a war of attrition. Lincoln have nailed it, Cardiff have the quality.

We are top of the shop of the next batch with a team littered with loans and players Nobody else wants and get injured every week.

Yesterday was our first loss in 14 matches. It's not pretty sure, but fuck me it's nowhere near as bad folk think.

Have a look at the chasing pack and the rest of league 1. It's utter indifferent turd, just like us.

 

All that being said, which is fair, it’s the manner of performances which is the concern. Unbeaten runs whilst positive, do give an inflated view. We’ve drawn nigh on half of our games this season, an awful lot of the wins have come from nicking it in injury time. While that’s a fantastic knack to have, it could quite easily have gone the other way and we’d be sat in 10th 

i don’t buy this “he doesn’t know his best side” noise that’s coming out, clearly applying a horses for course approach which is the modern game. 
 

however, I counted 5 players of the 11 yesterday who weren’t playing in the positions they’re accustomed too. That is a major concern for me because it feels like he doesn’t know the answer to the recurring question and he’s trying to unearth it somewhere somehow 

in hindsight not addressing the defensive situation has been poor. Yes he might’ve felt we had the numbers in there and that was the least of his concerns. But numbers don’t guarantee quality and it has been an issue all season. Just a collective inability to defend and make the right decisions 

we could walk the play offs battering someone 5 nil on aggregate or get hammered by the same scoreline. We can’t trust them at the minute and that’s where the frustration comes from 

[Tombwfc]

8 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

So if 5 or 6 teams have a poor pitch, we can virtually forget about promotion, this season or any other.

Its not good enough if we only have a team fit to play on a good pitch.

Bradford's always looks terrible too, that will be another free pass.   We can still improve tactics and execution of free kicks, corners, headers, tackles, defensive cover when we have a corner. 

Cardiff will have 25k fans, and Plymouth is a long way to travel on Good Friday.

And teams raise their game at our place.

And we're tired, we've played a lot of games.

Injuries, referees etc etc.

No game is a free pass aside from eg 2 sendings off or ref giving them 2 pens.

 

Port Vale have the worst home record in the league by miles - yesterday was their first win since New Year's Day and their third all season.

It's not a difficult place to go.

[ianofcleveleys]

Some sound points here this morning, as with most poor runs and days where we've seen a stinker there's a mix of factors behind them.

I dont think there are players out there who aren't together or aren't trying, its an easy one to level after a shocker, a bit like saying all refs are corrupt when you get some bad decisions against you, they aren't by any means of course, just not so good or having a mare themselves. Ours are no doubt doing their best but, with a number of them, its at things they aren't really suited to. That's on the manager. 

We've had some bad luck with injuries that have affected the shape and caused SS to fiddle and tinker, a bit too much and largely unsuccessfully, with some baffling shape / selection decisions in the last couple of games. 

Although ACD had gone off a bit when he got injured he's still been a big miss and Apter is miles off being a good enough replacement. Losing CBT an even bigger blow, the winger of the profile SS said he wanted in the  Summer and the key to serving Dalby what he needs. 

What is a bit concerning is the evident loss of confidence in a number of this season's recruits. The turnover has been huge, for sure, and its an ask recruitment-wise for them all to work out and none be duds, but we're in a situation at the moment where two keepers came and went by Xmas and the first choice replacement is no more than OK. CBT was brought in because neither of the original LWs were felt to be cutting it. Apter's been covered above, a centre forward was viewed as a better option in midweek. Taylor has disappeared altogether while Simons has become the equivalent of Morley under Evatt. Christie has experience around the dressing room and some nouse but isnt fit enough. Only my opinion here, know a lot like him, but Erhahon is also one in the jury out column for the genuine, consistent impact he's made.

All that considered, despite us still having a big squad, the number of selection options SS genuinely trusts are, in reality, relatively limited as we're in the business end of the season.

Conversely he also still has too many players in certain areas and is struggling to work out how to shoehorn them in. 

We certainly need ACD back after the break and in a formation that solidifies us at the back while getting the best out of our most potent forward, Dalby. It might have been dull v Wigan and Stevenage but it was effective in two difficult games. 3-4-3 with ACD, Dalby and one of the LWs or Kenny would be the thing to revert to for me.

An essay on a Sunday morning, apologies! 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:10 by ianofcleveleys

[wakey]

8 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Only my opinion here, know a lot like him, but Erhahon is also one in the jury out column for the genuine, consistent impact he's made.

Seen plenty of him now and I'm still not sure what he's good at. Pretty sure we've not - yet - seen the player folk were raving about when we bought him.

[barrycowdrill]

4 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

how to shoehorn them in

And that’s exactly how it’s felt recently and definitely yesterday. Kenny has done well running the right channels as a support to Dalby. That doesn’t make him the right sided man as part of a front 3 completely isolated. And whilst I understand the principle of going to a back 4 and having an extra man in midfield as we’ve looked overrun in there the last couple of games, just play your fucking LB at LB instead of one of your CBs whose distribution is woeful. He is actually a better LB than CB but that doesn’t mean he’s decent at either.. 

the issue for me though was it was apparent they had made the decision that no football could be played on that pitch which was absolute nonsense. Not one person put their foot on it all day it was like Sunday league football where it’s one bounce and hack. Alls I felt the players were hearing was “get rid” whenever it came near them 

if that’s the case the players then need to accept it will be a battle, you have to win and pick up 2nd balls etc, but non of them did that as it’s the dirty side of the game non of them want to do 

[Marc505]

So yeah @Leyther_Matt moments after I saw you after the game, the taxi I'd booked showed up (already 15 minutes late) and tried to mount a kerb that was way too steep for it. Wrecked its bumper and twisted it into the front tyre so it couldn't drive anymore.

Then I booked an uber instead, which tried a short cut that failed and put us into a huge traffic jam.

Which meant I missed the only train out of Stoke that would get me to the arena on time to watch Peter Kay, and ended up missing the first 45 minutes of it.

Some day.

Oh yeah btw, there's village clubs that have a better bar set up than Port Vale do.

[Zico]

44 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

 

i don’t buy this “he doesn’t know his best side” noise that’s coming out, clearly applying a horses for course approach which is the modern game. 
 

aye, same here, I don't think he wants to pick the same side

likewise

I hear, as we often do, he's be "found out"

I disagree with that too, because I don't think he's sussed out himself yet

right now, the only team I fear in the play offs is ourselves, because I don't know what to expect

[masi 51]

29 minutes ago, Zico said:

aye, same here, I don't think he wants to pick the same side

likewise

I hear, as we often do, he's be "found out"

I disagree with that too, because I don't think he's sussed out himself yet

right now, the only team I fear in the play offs is ourselves, because I don't know what to expect

He has in many ways been found out. The main one being let both Toal and Johnston have the ball, do not attempt to tackle them they will walk out slowly then they will either back pass or turn over the ball. Concede a corner and leave the fastest player on the half way line and hit it long to him no worries only TuTu will be back defending and he cannot tackle and Toal and Johnston will walk back to the halfway line once the ball is in the net.....Ohh and do not worry about the keeper his positioning is woeful from corners instead of what 999 keepers would do when their team have a corner and stand outside the box ready to kick any long clearance out yes dont laugh he will be rooted to his line.

Same ole,same ole

Edited Sunday at 10:02 by masi 51

[tomski]

Yesterday was guff but in the grand scheme of things may be a decent wake up call.

Being undefeated can mask a lot of things and hopefully a few refreshing conversations are had and we start to kick on.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, barrycowdrill said:

Bradford played there a week and a half ago. Same pitch, same state 

won 2 nil, had 32 shots at goal, 13 on target 

JSL 

Yeah I just did say this 

 

8 hours ago, Ani said:

We played hoof ball from early on some clearly something we had thought about. SS said in the week about finding a way to win.

What fucked me off was that given it was planned had we not practised it ? Dalby had none of the other players near him to pick up any bits and pieces. Apter was abysmal, I was happy he started as Burstow is not a wide player but Apter was even worse. 
Some of the balls played by Toal were shocking. The keeper got it in wrong half of the pitch with his kicks. Where was the keeper for the goal ? 
 

Vale were better than us today. To put that in perspective they lost last home to Bradford 0-2. Bradford had 32 shots in the game 13 on target. Today we had 8 shots, 2 on target. 

 

[barrycowdrill]

1 minute ago, tomski said:

few refreshing conversations are had

That’s also what worries me

we’re 3rd and by all accounts had not written off the automatics. We are the hunters rather than the hunted. We were hoping for a Cardiff wobble and that wobble has arrived. If the players can’t handle the pressure when there is non. How the fuck will they be able to handle it over a potential 3 game play off period when it’s shit or bust

If you are having to have refreshing conversations now when the carrot is potential automatic promotion, the very thing they have been working towards all season and no one expects you to get it then we may as well give up. 

[Whitesince63]

One slight positive from yesterday is that we’ve now got the international break to get over it and push on. Yesterday was a one off as far as I’m concerned which we got totally wrong for whatever reason but it’s gone, put it behind us and move on. We’re not 3rd in the league by being a bad team and hopefully with ACD back soon it will temper the loss of CBT. None of the opposition we’re likely to face are exactly breaking any pots either so there’s no reason we should fear them. We’ve got most of them to play now and I’ve always been convinced that we’re better having a tough run in than on paper an easy one. It’s a good chance to size up the opposition so let’s look forward not back and hope that after the break the players come back ready to fight the cause.

[barrycowdrill]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

Yeah I just did say this 

 

 

I just copied and pasted pal 😉 🤣

[barrycowdrill]

2 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

One slight positive from yesterday is that we’ve now got the international break to get over it and push on. Yesterday was a one off as far as I’m concerned which we got totally wrong for whatever reason but it’s gone, put it behind us and move on. We’re not 3rd in the league by being a bad team and hopefully with ACD back soon it will temper the loss of CBT. None of the opposition we’re likely to face are exactly breaking any pots either so there’s no reason we should fear them. We’ve got most of them to play now and I’ve always been convinced that we’re better having a tough run in than on paper an easy one. It’s a good chance to size up the opposition so let’s look forward not back and hope that after the break the players come back ready to fight the cause.

I’d argue it’s a lot more than a 1 off, last Tues, last sat and Blackpool games show it’s at least a 3 off before we even get in to the 

burton (a) 

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Northampton (h)

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examples