Guest Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said: And they’re the ones who don’t bother half the time. The hangers on. There in the prem days and when beating Peterborough etc but not there any other time. Them and their opinions can fuck off as far as I’m concerned the issue now is, the every weekers (made up of the majority on here) when some of those begin to lose interest, which many clearly are then there’s a fundamental problem. Were putting up with being skint. Nearly ceasing existence, the club being dragged through the mud, 3rd division football, -12 points. We’re all willing to look past those issues. But not the type of dross that is served up. That in itself tells the story working men and women from working class backgrounds from a working class town want to be excited. Looking forward to a Saturday. Graft all week, a bit of escapism for a couple of hours. We’ve not had that and I don’t see it changing if PP remains that’s not moaning for moaning sake. That’s being sick to fuck with being bored shitless and the one bit of hope and enjoyment being turned in to a miserable chore. And paying hard earned money for the privilege How many sides in the bottom half of league one have supporters who are happy with what they're watching? I think the point being missed is that if you go and watch a lot of teams regularly, then their supporters are just as unhappy with the product served up. In fact I can't remember a time when there were not Bolton fans moaning about something - even in the top flight there were moans about how we played or lack of expenditure or whatever. I personally think that whatever happens a 1-0 home defeat on a cold Tuesday evening to Southend will be as shit as it is regardless of how we're trying to play. I remember people saying they wouldn't go to another game whilst Coyle was here even though he was trying to play "attractive football". But trying to play attractive football and losing is no better than any other way of losing.
Burnden Pies Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, Ratwhite said: Some people just look for an "excuse" not to attend. I had a touch of it last season and paid £900 for the pleasure (thinly veiled im a WSU toff) Managers, owners, players dont matter to some, they just like to fucking moan. We're not talking about the 'I'm not going until Megson goes' fickle and excuse brigade here. That lot are long gone. We're talking about proper fans who've stuck by the club and been happy to put their time and hard earned money into the club throughout all our post PL years' of demise. I know quite a few of them and they have simply had enough of that utterly wretched, negative, soul destroying guff being served up week after week, and, Insult to injury, it's then compounded in the inevitable defeat post match interview by Parky quoting how much money the opposition have spent and saying he thought we played well and we're unlucky.. Jesus Christ. And yes I will be renewing my season ticket. It doesn't make me a 'superfan' and it doesn't make those who don't fickle and shit either.
Wanderlust Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, Burnden Pies said: If Parky is in the dugout come the first home game of the season the ground will be nearly empty and the atmosphere flat as a pancake. It would be the exact opposite of the upbeat and optimistic launch that I'm sure FV would be looking for, and would just feel like a continuation of last season's complete horror show. You can blame this on our 'shit' and 'fickle' fans as much as you superior beings like, but this is the plain and simple truth. The number of season tickets sold is likely to drop simply because we are playing in League 1 for now, but I can't see more than a couple of hundred max choosing not to renew specifically because of the manager, even though his tactics are appalling. Plenty will whinge but most will cough up in the end. Not many junkies give up heroin just because the price goes up or the quality goes down and it's the same with footie fans. Whilst I agree that FV would probably want an "upbeat and optimistic launch" there's no evidence yet that they can afford what that would take and if Nixon is right about Parky being retained that is probably an indicator that they can't even afford to replace him, let alone sign a bunch of quality players. If FV are committed to running the club on a break even basis there'll either be a period of greater austerity than before or they'll find a way of developing the land and securing an ongoing income from that - or both. Either way I can't see them chucking a load of dosh at it up front to create an "upbeat and optimistic launch" and will probably be expecting a pat on the back just for keeping us in existence. At this stage it looks to me like we'll have a team struggling to survive and if we do manage that despite the 12 point starting deficit and a manager whose tactics are questionable, that would be a result.
darrener Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said: And they’re the ones who don’t bother half the time. The hangers on. There in the prem days and when beating Peterborough etc but not there any other time. Them and their opinions can fuck off as far as I’m concerned the issue now is, the every weekers (made up of the majority on here) when some of those begin to lose interest, which many clearly are then there’s a fundamental problem. Were putting up with being skint. Nearly ceasing existence, the club being dragged through the mud, 3rd division football, -12 points. We’re all willing to look past those issues. But not the type of dross that is served up. That in itself tells the story working men and women from working class backgrounds from a working class town want to be excited. Looking forward to a Saturday. Graft all week, a bit of escapism for a couple of hours. We’ve not had that and I don’t see it changing if PP remains that’s not moaning for moaning sake. That’s being sick to fuck with being bored shitless and the one bit of hope and enjoyment being turned in to a miserable chore. And paying hard earned money for the privilege Absolutely spot on 👍
gonzo Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: How many sides in the bottom half of league one have supporters who are happy with what they're watching? I think the point being missed is that if you go and watch a lot of teams regularly, then their supporters are just as unhappy with the product served up. In fact I can't remember a time when there were not Bolton fans moaning about something - even in the top flight there were moans about how we played or lack of expenditure or whatever. I personally think that whatever happens a 1-0 home defeat on a cold Tuesday evening to Southend will be as shit as it is regardless of how we're trying to play. I remember people saying they wouldn't go to another game whilst Coyle was here even though he was trying to play "attractive football". But trying to play attractive football and losing is no better than any other way of losing. What is it that your actually trying to argue against? Listen to what people are saying. It’s not just 50/50ers or lads that stay in the pub. It’s ardent fans that have to make an effort to get there. Loads have had enough regardless of how else anyone else plays.
Traf Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Who's to say Nixon is right? He has been known to be wrong before. Perhaps, FV have a football guy/manager lined up already with a list of player targets? That scenario is as likely as Nixon getting something right, surely?
barrycowdrill Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: How many sides in the bottom half of league one have supporters who are happy with what they're watching? I think the point being missed is that if you go and watch a lot of teams regularly, then their supporters are just as unhappy with the product served up. In fact I can't remember a time when there were not Bolton fans moaning about something - even in the top flight there were moans about how we played or lack of expenditure or whatever. I personally think that whatever happens a 1-0 home defeat on a cold Tuesday evening to Southend will be as shit as it is regardless of how we're trying to play. I remember people saying they wouldn't go to another game whilst Coyle was here even though he was trying to play "attractive football". But trying to play attractive football and losing is no better than any other way of losing. It was shit when we got promoted. The only thing that appeased us all is that very point. If your happy with it then congratulations but I’d be amazed to see what you think is bad football
darrener Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: How many sides in the bottom half of league one have supporters who are happy with what they're watching? I think the point being missed is that if you go and watch a lot of teams regularly, then their supporters are just as unhappy with the product served up. In fact I can't remember a time when there were not Bolton fans moaning about something - even in the top flight there were moans about how we played or lack of expenditure or whatever. I personally think that whatever happens a 1-0 home defeat on a cold Tuesday evening to Southend will be as shit as it is regardless of how we're trying to play. I remember people saying they wouldn't go to another game whilst Coyle was here even though he was trying to play "attractive football". But trying to play attractive football and losing is no better than any other way of losing. You're just not getting it, I've been going for nearly 50 years, at least in the past when the team was shit the fans voiced their opinion and we got rid of the manager and a new one came in and for a while there was renewed hope. Now fans seem to have given up and just accept the drudgery of it all. If there isn't going to be a change then what's the point? Stop accepting this absolute dross, we are so much better than this. Parky out!!!!
Guest Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, barrycowdrill said: It was shit when we got promoted. The only thing that appeased us all is that very point. If your happy with it then congratulations but I’d be amazed to see what you think is bad football I think the expectations of "entertaining football" are distorted. Of course we didn't play free flowing stuff and we had a certain style. But I will bet that if you were sent to watch most teams in league one week in week out you'd eventually get pretty bored of what's on offer. I'm not saying there isn't a room for improvement or adjustment - there absolutely is. But the black and white people seem to perceive it as in my view is hugely distorted. Ultimately free flowing winning football is what everyone wants. After that winning football of any sort. After that I'm not sure there is a huge margin...you lose football because you're not very good. I don't see many teams struggling who are also "attractive on the eye". And most of those teams might look good once every 5/6 games and hopeless the rest of the time.
Guest Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, darrener said: You're just not getting it, I've been going for nearly 50 years, at least in the past when the team was shit the fans voiced their opinion and we got rid of the manager and a new one came in and for a while there was renewed hope. Now fans seem to have given up and just accept the drudgery of it all. If there isn't going to be a change then what's the point? Stop accepting this absolute dross, we are so much better than this. Parky out!!!! In the past we were a club that wasn't in admin and had resources to spend on changing managers. You can't compare many situations in the last few decades with now. You also have to factor in the two seasons before last had celebratory pitch invasions at the end. You can say whatever you like about luck or whatever but those were scenes we'd not seen for a long time at the club. In the current situation we're in we first need to build a team. And hope we can start next season with a full squad. That has to be priority. Because when it has seemed like the club would disappear all anyone wanted was "a club to watch next season". And given where we've been that will surely be enough for at least a while. Then if things are going badly fans can ask for something else.
bwfc2003 Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Traf said: Who's to say Nixon is right? He has been known to be wrong before. Perhaps, FV have a football guy/manager lined up already with a list of player targets? That scenario is as likely as Nixon getting something right, surely? Agree 100% with this - people are talking as if its a done deal that we keep Parky just because Nixon says so - Dont forget the jock bastard gets as much wrong as he does right
Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 It's really quite simple, when the sheer drudgery, boredom and absolute frustration overtake the sense of passion and duty then there something seriously wrong. Way beyond the drop off from going down a league (which actually was pretty small last time round with good season ticket sales). Dread the thought of post match explanations of defeat being because Fleetwood have more expensive players than us.
BOWTUN BAKED Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 16 hours ago, birch-chorley said: My issue with keeping Parky is player recruitment If your keeping him then you need to back him with a squad full of players who play to his negative style But then you might as well commit to Parky for a year or two as you have signed players to fit that style If it’s going pear shaped and a new manager comes in with a more progressive style, wanting to knock the ball about and have a go, then we have an issue that he’s got to work with a Parky squad Or do what Ken did and sign players to play a more progressive style then let Parky bomb them out I suppose but that’s a waste of precious resources With only 5 players on the books I’d say it’s the perfect time for a new man, why on earth would it be better in November once Parky has signed 20 new players? (if we are floundering of course) This
barrycowdrill Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: I think the expectations of "entertaining football" are distorted. Of course we didn't play free flowing stuff and we had a certain style. But I will bet that if you were sent to watch most teams in league one week in week out you'd eventually get pretty bored of what's on offer. I'm not saying there isn't a room for improvement or adjustment - there absolutely is. But the black and white people seem to perceive it as in my view is hugely distorted. Ultimately free flowing winning football is what everyone wants. After that winning football of any sort. After that I'm not sure there is a huge margin...you lose football because you're not very good. I don't see many teams struggling who are also "attractive on the eye". And most of those teams might look good once every 5/6 games and hopeless the rest of the time. Where have I mentioned free flowing football or pleasing on the eye? We’re currently at one end of the football spectrum and your assuming I / everyone else who calls for change want us at the other. Yet I haven’t said that anywhere. Never have moving one or two steps away from what we currently do. Minute in minute out, every week would be progress. Demonstrating attacking intent in periods of a game would be progress. Having a plan B when plan a doesn’t work would be inventive (and plan b in my book isn’t swapping one big lump up top for another one). Not Relying on our creaky, slow, gormless back 4 to keep out much better sides would be progress. So would looking at the players in your squad and playing a way that suits them rather than shoe horning players in to a fixed system where it will never work would give some hope some middle ground. That’s all. No more, no less. And before you chuck your spend bollocks out again. Other teams with no money show the above. Or at least show they are trying to. We / HE doesn’t so wanting someone who can / will do that isn’t lunacy or unfair on PP. it’s quite a reasonable request Edited July 4, 2019 by barrycowdrill
Big E Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, gonzo said: What is it that your actually trying to argue against? Listen to what people are saying. It’s not just 50/50ers or lads that stay in the pub. It’s ardent fans that have to make an effort to get there. Loads have had enough regardless of how else anyone else plays. Exactly. I would call myself someone who goes to watch most of the shit but the thought of another season of shit negative football is grim. people can say we only have a few players etc. PP will not play the Otzummer so the squad is even smaller. The lads i know who are unlikely to renew are folk who spent years going week in week out. as many are pointing out. these people losing interest is the issue
gonzo Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Nobody has mentioned free flowing football. A positive mindset and gameplan is all folk ask for. It’s not about style of play, it’s about wanting to win a football match. Not set up to defend a 0-0 every week. Especially when we’re already 12 points behind. fan 5 unless you watch every single game of football you’ve no idea of the mindsets of anyone else in our division.
Big E Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: I think the expectations of "entertaining football" are distorted. Of course we didn't play free flowing stuff and we had a certain style. But I will bet that if you were sent to watch most teams in league one week in week out you'd eventually get pretty bored of what's on offer. I'm not saying there isn't a room for improvement or adjustment - there absolutely is. But the black and white people seem to perceive it as in my view is hugely distorted. Ultimately free flowing winning football is what everyone wants. After that winning football of any sort. After that I'm not sure there is a huge margin...you lose football because you're not very good. I don't see many teams struggling who are also "attractive on the eye". And most of those teams might look good once every 5/6 games and hopeless the rest of the time. people are not wanting 500 passes per goal football they just want to know, as pointed out previously by tomski, if we go 1-0 down we will still be in it rather than knowing its game over. thats the issue
darrener Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, gonzo said: Nobody has mentioned free flowing football. A positive mindset and gameplan is all folk ask for. It’s not about style of play, it’s about wanting to win a football match. Not set up to defend a 0-0 every week. Especially when we’re already 12 points behind. fan 5 unless you watch every single game of football you’ve no idea of the mindsets of anyone else in our division. 👍
barrycowdrill Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, gonzo said: fan 5 unless you watch every single game of football you’ve no idea of the mindsets of anyone else in our division. What I can say for certain is, every side that comes to our place has a more positive mindset than us. That’s a fact and that is the fucking problem!
radcliffe white Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Millwall away sticks out for me, 1 up majority of the game and he had us sitting back game should of been done and dusted but not Parkinson
Rizlar Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Every team came to ours last season knowing score first out lot give up .
mickbrown Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Put it plainly, I don’t want to spend £400 a year and drive 80 miles a match to sit there and be bored shitless. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable.
gonzo Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, mickbrown said: Put it plainly, I don’t want to spend £400 a year and drive 80 miles a match to sit there and be bored shitless. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable. You’re not.
Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, gonzo said: You’re not. Aye. Coming home, following a defeat where your team's done ok is disappointing, but acceptable. Saturday night may be a bit duller but not an issue. However coming come angry, feeling total frustration and a fucked up weekend and the need for more counseling as you feel your going mad for going in the first place isn't appetising.
burnden Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Put it plainly, I don’t want to spend £400 a year and drive 80 miles a match to sit there and be bored shitless. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable. This^ ...180 mile round trip to home games for me for the last 32 yrs and not missed many , really struggling at the thought of getting behind another season of PP anti football , don't want to give up my ST because i know if i do stop going even for a bit then i would end up finding something else to do on a weekend.
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