The Real Plan A 2.0

[Traf]

17 hours ago, Chadderton said:

Would we keep one up for an opposition corner ?

No and we'd still let them have two men free on the edge of our box.

[Matt Lofthouse]

On 04/02/2025 at 20:47, gonzo said:

I just can't shift this nagging feeling that Evatt is right about some of the players and their attitude and application. 

I just hope he's wrong and he just wasn't the man to get the best out of them. Yes I know he signed them and I'm not for one minute resolving him of any blame.

I just have doubts over the mentality of a few of them. I have no doubt on paper they are good enough mind.

 

Yesterday help with the above mate?

[Big E]

We battled well in the end and it was a great result. If Evatt beat a team in the bottom 3 though last minute we would all say it for what it is. Shite if we want promotion. 
 

we could have easily had a referee who didn’t give us the correct added on time. 
 

a win is a win though. Roll on next week

Edited February 9, 2025 by Big E

[Traf]

22 minutes ago, Big E said:

we could have easily had a referee who didn’t give us the correct added on time. 

I've a sneaking suspicion that we might start to get a fairer rub of the green from the officials now that Evatt has gone.

[Big E]

Just now, Traf said:

I've a sneaking suspicion that we might start to get a fairer rub of the green from the officials now that Evatt has gone.

could be on to something there. My mates dad used to Ref the national league when Evatt was at Barrow. He genuinely hates him. Apparently the way he was with referees was vile

[kent_white]

13 minutes ago, Big E said:

Apparently the way he was with referees was vile

Genuinely read that as 'refugees' at first and couldn't get my head around it! 🤣

[gonzo]

51 minutes ago, Big E said:

We battled well in the end and it was a great result. If Evatt beat a team in the bottom 3 though last minute we would all say it for what it is. Shite if we want promotion. 
 

we could have easily had a referee who didn’t give us the correct added on time. 
 

a win is a win though. Roll on next week

I'm more happy with the change in formation, playing actual advanced wingers and proper ingame management with system changes to suit what was happening on the field of play.

All against a team of shithouses out to spoil the game.

It was more than just a win against a low ranking team.

Much more.

 

[kent_white]

12 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I'm more happy with the change in formation, playing actual advanced wingers and proper ingame management with system changes to suit what was happening on the field of play.

All against a team of shithouses out to spoil the game.

It was more than just a win against a low ranking team.

Much more.

 

I agree. If we'd have lost that yesterday - it would have felt very different waking up this morning. 

I said to my mate - we look like a team trying to win a match. Rather than a team playing a system and hoping that the system means that they win the match. 

Not sure if that articulates well - but I know what I mean in my own head! 😁

[desperado]

13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I'm more happy with the change in formation, playing actual advanced wingers and proper ingame management with system changes to suit what was happening on the field of play.

All against a team of shithouses out to spoil the game.

It was more than just a win against a low ranking team.

Much more.

 

Yeh certainly didn’t feel like just another win against lowly opposition.

I go back to our tongue in cheek football manager 1993 discussion about changing to 4 at the back and everything clicking into place.

Would only ever work in fantasy or if I was managing the simulator.

The reality is, that change in formation, as refreshing and effective as it was at times, is going to need some time and hard work on the training ground.

Like you I was chuffed to see it and more pleased with the in-game management.

But regardless of the opposition, these changes are not going to be an instant success. They are going to experience  problems, faults and unfamiliarity having been so processed and formulaic for years.  

I’m prepared for a bit of a rollercoaster. And it won’t come as a shock that, as long as the players show the same heart and desire they have since IE’s departure, criticism will be in short supply from me. 

[gonzo]

Indeed. These are players that have been coached to the enth degree to concentrate on ball retention and slow build up play. Some of them 3 years in the making.

Game after game, 3 cbs with a deep lying CM etc. 

The change yesterday bought about frailties clear to see, especially with an attack line like theirs with plenty of power and pace. We looked exposed at times, Toal gets turned a lot at the best of times nevermind all of sudden without his 6ft 2 pal next to him.

All work in progress but I never want to see us with a 3cb system ever again. 

I'd hazard a guess that might not be our last high scoring fixture of the season.

 

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Traf said:

I've a sneaking suspicion that we might start to get a fairer rub of the green from the officials now that Evatt has gone.

I think the dugout switch might have been part of that thinking 

[onefinfrandsen]

31 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I agree. If we'd have lost that yesterday - it would have felt very different waking up this morning. 

I said to my mate - we look like a team trying to win a match. Rather than a team playing a system and hoping that the system means that they win the match. 

Not sure if that articulates well - but I know what I mean in my own head! 😁

The performance suggests the players felt the same way

[desperado]

9 minutes ago, gonzo said:

All work in progress but I never want to see us with a 3cb system ever again. 

Now you see I don’t mind, as long as it’s either a planned system to work against a certain opposition, or an in-game tweak to try and adapt/try something different.

I’ve been having an echoey conversation with myself (😂) on the other thread which I still haven’t had an answer to, but didn’t we switch to 3 CBs after the 4 subs yesterday? 

[Cheese]

39 minutes ago, desperado said:

Now you see I don’t mind, as long as it’s either a planned system to work against a certain opposition, or an in-game tweak to try and adapt/try something different.

I’ve been having an echoey conversation with myself (😂) on the other thread which I still haven’t had an answer to, but didn’t we switch to 3 CBs after the 4 subs yesterday? 

Yes we did, with Morley as one of them at one point.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I think the dugout switch might have been part of that thinking 

It might have been, but I just see it as someone very normal coming in and going “why the fuck are we sitting in the away dugout?”

“cause the old boss convinced himself that we get a minor advantage by being closer to the liner on that side Steve”

”what a pile of shite, let’s just do the normal thing and sit in the home dugout shall we”

Sensible, straightforward, not overthinking, concentrate on the things that actually matter.

[paulhanley]

A lot of interesting talk about formations, in-game management, tactics. All of it relevant and interesting and I'm as happy to get involved as anyone.

In the end though you just need to check out our goals against column. You have to go down to 17th in the table before you come across any other side who have conceded as many. 

I just think SS and the new staff need to re-instill some of the old-fashioned basics of defending in to our players. I've said it before on other threads about football in general, there are things passed on to from generation to generation of football people that are getting lost. Full backs, get in the way of crosses, there is no disgrace in sending it in to Row Z if you're in a tight spot, position yourselves differently against pacy players/taller more powerful players to cater for their different threats.

Its great for defenders to be comfortable in possession but I doubt any of the above has been taught at our club for many years now and its stuff that's not all that difficult to get across. 

Then we can talk about systems and formations and adapting occasionally to address the strengths of the opposition. 

I think SS is pretty pragmatic and if he'd not realised these things before he joined us they'll be dawning on him.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

On 09/02/2025 at 12:41, kent_white said:

I agree. If we'd have lost that yesterday - it would have felt very different waking up this morning. 

I said to my mate - we look like a team trying to win a match. Rather than a team playing a system and hoping that the system means that they win the match. 

Not sure if that articulates well - but I know what I mean in my own head! 😁

Dead right.

Big difference in approach. 

Remember Rioch and his 4 strikers against Reading in the play off final.

Borne out of necessity, and flummoxed the opposition. 

Stonking!

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

21 hours ago, paulhanley said:

A lot of interesting talk about formations, in-game management, tactics. All of it relevant and interesting and I'm as happy to get involved as anyone.

In the end though you just need to check out our goals against column. You have to go down to 17th in the table before you come across any other side who have conceded as many. 

I just think SS and the new staff need to re-instill some of the old-fashioned basics of defending in to our players. I've said it before on other threads about football in general, there are things passed on to from generation to generation of football people that are getting lost. Full backs, get in the way of crosses, there is no disgrace in sending it in to Row Z if you're in a tight spot, position yourselves differently against pacy players/taller more powerful players to cater for their different threats.

Its great for defenders to be comfortable in possession but I doubt any of the above has been taught at our club for many years now and its stuff that's not all that difficult to get across. 

Then we can talk about systems and formations and adapting occasionally to address the strengths of the opposition. 

I think SS is pretty pragmatic and if he'd not realised these things before he joined us they'll be dawning on him.

I think it's 15 times now, including Saturday, where we've conceded two or more

[desperado]

“Even before the game started we had talked about putting on a performance, go and scrap, go and fight and battle but for 25-30 minutes we didn’t really do that,” he told The Bolton News.

“We let ourselves down, they won all the second balls, and credit to Shrewsbury, sometimes you have to hold your hand up and say they were the better team for that opening period.

“But that is when you need the crowd, they did get us back into it, got us going, and when you can score three goals right in front of them it’s great.

“The substitutes made a big impact. It was a lovely pick out from Szabi Schon for the third goal, Jordi was great – I didn’t think he was on Tuesday night, and we spoke about that. When he has got that sort of speed and energy he has to give us that impetus.

“Victor came on and did his role to keep holding the ball for us, Big Chris (Forino) got some really important minutes and Josh (Sheehan), well, we know what we are going to get from him.

“It was a big call to leave Josh out at the start of the XI because he's been outstanding the last two games for us. But with the type of game that we expected. We didn’t imagine there would be much football played but with the rain and the way the pitch was, it actually suited us to play a bit more.

“That’s why we were keen to get Josh on early as well, just to get us taking over, which is what he's really good at.”

Some really interesting comments to dissect from SS here.

- Acknowledging how poor we were first 30, but addressing this with some savvy in-game management

 - A shout out to the positive influence of the fans

- Impact of the subs

- Nice one for you there @Arrested development with SS praising Schon’s sssist 😉

- I like it how he’s called out Tutu’s lack of influence Tuesday, but talked about how his pace and energy was so much better Saturday and that’s what we want to see more of

- Interesting snippet on Sheehan too. Purposefully left out because of the type of game he thought it was going to be. But it turned out different, so they got him on early in the 2nd half to change things.

- Yet more signs that SS will have a horses for courses style approach to games and won’t be hesitant in making changes when needed.  

 

[only1swanny]

Said to my dad on Saturday, looks like he's keeping Schon and Tutu for a second half assault when their speed and skill will make the difference. Certainly seemed that way. 

Each time Tutu starts he doesn't seem as impressive, and it's more that they don't know how to deal with him in the second half., Absolutely love the fact that he gets in peoples faces and winds them up though. 

[Dr. Feelgood]

How does SS set the team out defending corners btw ?

All back in the packed defence, as is the way these days ... or does he leave one up ?

[Arrested development]

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

How does SS set the team out defending corners btw ?

All back in the packed defence, as is the way these days ... or does he leave one up ?

Seems to be all back tbh.

[jeep]

4 hours ago, desperado said:

 

 

“Even before the game started we had talked about putting on a performance, go and scrap, go and fight and battle but for 25-30 minutes we didn’t really do that,” he told The Bolton News.

“We let ourselves down, they won all the second balls, and credit to Shrewsbury, sometimes you have to hold your hand up and say they were the better team for that opening period.

“But that is when you need the crowd, they did get us back into it, got us going, and when you can score three goals right in front of them it’s great.

“The substitutes made a big impact. It was a lovely pick out from Szabi Schon for the third goal, Jordi was great – I didn’t think he was on Tuesday night, and we spoke about that. When he has got that sort of speed and energy he has to give us that impetus.

“Victor came on and did his role to keep holding the ball for us, Big Chris (Forino) got some really important minutes and Josh (Sheehan), well, we know what we are going to get from him.

“It was a big call to leave Josh out at the start of the XI because he's been outstanding the last two games for us. But with the type of game that we expected. We didn’t imagine there would be much football played but with the rain and the way the pitch was, it actually suited us to play a bit more.

“That’s why we were keen to get Josh on early as well, just to get us taking over, which is what he's really good at.”

Some really interesting comments to dissect from SS here.

- Acknowledging how poor we were first 30, but addressing this with some savvy in-game management

 - A shout out to the positive influence of the fans

- Impact of the subs

- Nice one for you there @Arrested development with SS praising Schon’s sssist 😉

- I like it how he’s called out Tutu’s lack of influence Tuesday, but talked about how his pace and energy was so much better Saturday and that’s what we want to see more of

- Interesting snippet on Sheehan too. Purposefully left out because of the type of game he thought it was going to be. But it turned out different, so they got him on early in the 2nd half to change things.

- Yet more signs that SS will have a horses for courses style approach to games and won’t be hesitant in making changes when needed.  

 

Can understand why they want to play for this mon.....

 

[desperado]

36 minutes ago, Arrested development said:

Seems to be all back tbh.

I was looking at this from behind the goal at Shrewsbury with my untrained eye, so could be bollocks. 

Yes it is was all back

But there is a difference to previous regime

While it looked like we still had zonal defenders in there, front, centre and back of 6 yard box, there was more man-marking from what I could see, with the big difference being those on the edge of the box too.

[Dr. Feelgood]

38 minutes ago, jeep said:

Can understand why they want to play for this mon.....

Booo !!