Blackpool (A)

[Johnnyrotten]

16 minutes ago, Ani said:

Yeah but so far Schumacher has mentioned he has apologies already this season from the refs for bad calls.

It is not something we should blame for everything as we are our own worst enemies but very little going our way at the moment . 

I've always thought its a bit too easy (lazy even) to say that refereeing decisions even themselves out over the season.  How does that work?  So if net significant bad decisions is say 3 by the end of August, you're going to get at least 3 more in your favour?  Not necessarily, you might get another 3 bad 'uns then its 6 by the end of September.

Same with "luck evens itself out" and "everyone gets injuries".  I'd guess its a million to one chance of any of them things being evenly spread among 23 teams, yet it gets trotted out every week and accepted as fact just on the basis that nobody can be arsed checking 😀

[Ani]

9 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Was it a late flag? I noticed on the replay none of their players appealed apart from the keeper, who seemed to realise quite late.  It was offside but a pain in the arse if the flag only went up after the shout.  I was too busy leaping around in the stand for no good reason. For the 2nd year running too after Morleys 'disallowed goal' last year. 

I was in line with linesman. The flag was late but only because I think he waited for the ref to confirm the player was interfering. 
 

The process as I understand it and was followed yesterday is that the linesman stands in line with the flag down, he was stood virtually ‘at attention’ waiting for the confirmation. Then once ref says he is offside flag goes up. I thought it looked dodgy so watching the linesman I was never celebrating. 

[Ani]

10 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I've always thought its a bit too easy (lazy even) to say that refereeing decisions even themselves out over the season.  How does that work?  So if net significant bad decisions is say 3 by the end of August, you're going to get at least 3 more in your favour?  Not necessarily, you might get another 3 bad 'uns then its 6 by the end of September.

Same with "luck evens itself out" and "everyone gets injuries".  I'd guess its a million to one chance of any of them things being evenly spread among 23 teams, yet it gets trotted out every week and accepted as fact just on the basis that nobody can be arsed checking 😀

It is more a case of the officials are equally bad for everyone so you have to take the rough with the smooth. 
 

The balancing point if you ever wanted to analyse would be so complicated it ain’t worth the effort at our level. They do look at VAR mistakes in Premier League.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/45340176/every-premier-league-var-error-ranking-winners-losers-referee-stats-2024-25
 

But measuring the impact is impossible. We can hardly say a small push in the back after 20 seconds v Lincoln cost us 2 points or the ref giving a foul yesterday made any difference. 
 

So just be something football fans moan about rather than writing over long boring posts about on forums 😂🕺😎

[Johnnyrotten]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

It is more a case of the officials are equally bad for everyone so you have to take the rough with the smooth. 
 

The balancing point if you ever wanted to analyse would be so complicated it ain’t worth the effort at our level. They do look at VAR mistakes in Premier League.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/45340176/every-premier-league-var-error-ranking-winners-losers-referee-stats-2024-25
 

But measuring the impact is impossible. We can hardly say a small push in the back after 20 seconds v Lincoln cost us 2 points or the ref giving a foul yesterday made any difference. 
 

So just be something football fans moan about rather than writing over long boring posts about on forums 😂🕺😎

Yes I agree entirely, the refs are just bad generally!  And I wouldn't presume we are any worse off than anyone else, but watching our games the last few years in L1 I'd be amazed if it wasn't the case!

I was just taking issue with the overused phrase that it evens itself out over the season, based on nothing but guesswork and presumably to stop anyone having excuses for bad results.

I still think we'd have finished above Derby if we'd all had the same amount of luck/refereeing decisions/injuries 😀

[Tombwfc]

5 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I know I'm repeating myself but I really can't get my head around this point of view

Certainly the idea that it's bonkers anyway

The consensus was that Evatt had us underachieving and was rightly potted

SS then came in and he got us playing well, the players certainly hadn't downed tools when we came from behind to win 4-3 or when we beat the eventual league winners at home in one of the best performances I can remember for years

We were all set for finishing in the play-offs then the whole thing fell to pieces and it just doesn't matter

 

Exactly. We sacked Evatt (rightly) on the basis that he wasn't getting the best out of the squad. SS was brought in to be an improvement.

He started with a team that was level on points with the playoffs. The minimum expectation at that point was to make the top six, and there were threads on here talking about challenging the automatics.

Instead we finished 10 points adrift and it's been rewritten as the impossible job with a squad of no hopers and (fictional) kids.

I'm not saying hang Schumacher on last seasons poor results. I'm just saying that the idea that they carry no weight whatsoever - when we've continued in the same vein this season - is absurd. People are hyping up Dalby on the basis of what he did in a different country last season, but the manager's record of managing this club in this league is apparently totally 100% irrelevant.

[Stig]

15 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Yes I agree entirely, the refs are just bad generally!  And I wouldn't presume we are any worse off than anyone else, but watching our games the last few years in L1 I'd be amazed if it wasn't the case!

I was just taking issue with the overused phrase that it evens itself out over the season, based on nothing but guesswork and presumably to stop anyone having excuses for bad results.

I still think we'd have finished above Derby if we'd all had the same amount of luck/refereeing decisions/injuries 😀

See I don't think it evens itself out, but that over the course of the season the impact of some wrong decisions for and against aren't a factor in where you finish. One off games can be impacted.

And regarding the 3rd place season losing out to Derby, you've stated more than most that our results were pretty similar throughout that season, just our fixtures got harder in the second half of the season. We always looked like missing autos from the start of Feb to me, a few injuries or bad decisions didn't change that

[Tonge moor green jacket]

The best teams do get more luck.

But it isn't without foundation: the more time spent in an opponent's box, the more deflections, penalties and goals are scored.

Some of those may be refereeing errors, but they may typically be proportionally quite low, but you get more because of the number of shots/crosses etc.

The opposite at the other end.

Utd, Arsenal, City, Liverpool were/are typically seen as being jammy or "favoured" by refs, when at the top. 

[Johnnyrotten]

28 minutes ago, Stig said:

See I don't think it evens itself out, but that over the course of the season the impact of some wrong decisions for and against aren't a factor in where you finish. One off games can be impacted.

And regarding the 3rd place season losing out to Derby, you've stated more than most that our results were pretty similar throughout that season, just our fixtures got harder in the second half of the season. We always looked like missing autos from the start of Feb to me, a few injuries or bad decisions didn't change that

I'll agree to disagree, I think decisions can effect where you finish - obviously not all the time, but it can happen, I just can't prove it obviously.

Yeah I did say that about the results (let's not go over all that again - my fault for referencing it!).

I just thought Derby got quite a bit of luck from memory, not really playing better than us but turning those draws into wins that we couldn't manage, with a few slices of luck and ref's decisions thrown in.  But I can't prove that, just the impression I got.  And the injuries didn't help.  Obviously we would have still gone up if JDB wasn't so crap 😀

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

Exactly. We sacked Evatt (rightly) on the basis that he wasn't getting the best out of the squad. SS was brought in to be an improvement.

He started with a team that was level on points with the playoffs. The minimum expectation at that point was to make the top six, and there were threads on here talking about challenging the automatics.

Instead we finished 10 points adrift and it's been rewritten as the impossible job with a squad of no hopers and (fictional) kids.

I'm not saying hang Schumacher on last seasons poor results. I'm just saying that the idea that they carry no weight whatsoever - when we've continued in the same vein this season - is absurd. People are hyping up Dalby on the basis of what he did in a different country last season, but the manager's record of managing this club in this league is apparently totally 100% irrelevant.

Evatt was sacked because he wasn't getting the best out of a squad HE had built over the course of a few years. Schumacher had half a season to assess it, and he's basically scrapped the lot and started again. Utter lunacy to judge him 6 games into the season.

[Didledee]

10 hours ago, L/H White said:

Why should it?

This has been getting said for weeks now, beyond comical. 

We just aren't very good accept it

Should have won the game v Stockport in the first half, they should have had a red card and us a penalty

beat Plymouth

Should have beaten 10 men Barnsley with 30 odd minutes

Completely dominated Reading bar the last 15 minutes

Better team v Lincoln and Blackpool, so on balance of play I'd say we deserved to win all games, the worst performance was probably vs Barnsley, but stats wise we dominated even though I thought we could have done more with a man advantage

So performance wise I'm not worried about dropping points atm, but when you take these dropped points with the end of the season too, SS may soon come under some pressure, because it's a results business and if you look at our last 4 1-1 draws, we've had a very close goal vs 10 men from McAtee, a lucky deflected goal vs Reading, a last minute own goal and a lucky break for Burstow v Blackpool

All season from open play we've only scored 1 goal so far that was well crafted and that Burstow's v Plymouth, of course our opposition have had very lucky moments too like Reading and Blackpool and we weren't switched on/prepared proper to concede so early v Lincoln.

[ianofcleveleys]

49 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Evatt was sacked because he wasn't getting the best out of a squad HE had built over the course of a few years. Schumacher had half a season to assess it, and he's basically scrapped the lot and started again. Utter lunacy to judge him 6 games into the season.

It's a fine line I suppose, between questioning and judging. I wouldn't be into judging him this side of Christmas though there are one or two questions. Hopefully they'll be answered over the coming weeks. 

[desperado]

3 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

People are hyping up Dalby on the basis of what he did in a different country last season, but the manager's record of managing this club in this league is apparently totally 100% irrelevant

Not me.

And I like this statement to prove my point, so thanks 😊

I’m not looking back at Dalby’s contribution last year as any indication on what he’ll do this season. I’m only going to look at what his contribution is for us this season.

I don’t care that Burstow wasn’t really doing much last season either, because he’s doing fine for us so far.

And if we continue to use player comparisons, but need to use a BWFC player, then let’s look at Sheehan. Some had written him off the back end of last season for his under-par (sometimes argued lightweight) performances. I’d argued that getting some steel alongside him in midfield would bring out the best him in.

Im judging Sheehan on what I’m seeing this season, with a new approach, new system, new players around him. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Kevin Davies came when not ripping up trees.

Right man for the team BSA wanted to build.

[Ani]

2 hours ago, Didledee said:

Should have won the game v Stockport in the first half, they should have had a red card and us a penalty

beat Plymouth

Should have beaten 10 men Barnsley with 30 odd minutes

Completely dominated Reading bar the last 15 minutes

Better team v Lincoln and Blackpool, so on balance of play I'd say we deserved to win all games, the worst performance was probably vs Barnsley, but stats wise we dominated even though I thought we could have done more with a man advantage

So performance wise I'm not worried about dropping points atm, but when you take these dropped points with the end of the season too, SS may soon come under some pressure, because it's a results business and if you look at our last 4 1-1 draws, we've had a very close goal vs 10 men from McAtee, a lucky deflected goal vs Reading, a last minute own goal and a lucky break for Burstow v Blackpool

All season from open play we've only scored 1 goal so far that was well crafted and that Burstow's v Plymouth, of course our opposition have had very lucky moments too like Reading and Blackpool and we weren't switched on/prepared proper to concede so early v Lincoln.

The problem is not winning games when we are playing well. 
 

What you are saying above is that a better/more proffesional/clinical team would have won every game.

We did nt. 

[Traf]

The problem is that we are still conceding soft goals.

The mainstays of last season's poor defence are all still playing for us, along with a lad who played on loan in L2 last season, who our manager says needs to improve defensively.

We've got eleventy number 10's and inverted wingers, but we're still undone by the straight ball over the top.
Barnsley (A), Blackpool (A) already this season.

[JOGLER]

Our centre halves aren't good enough, I've been saying it for at least 2 years. They're extremely poor in the air, evidenced by being weak when defending corners and other set pieces but also the fact that they rarely score.... Centre halves who are good in the air tend to score, as well as being strong defensively.

Our centre halves can head the ball but have little control over where or how far the ball goes - just heading it seems to be the limit of their capabilities.

I was hoping Richard Taylor would be better than what we've got at CH, he still might be but Schu seems to have penciled him in for full back.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

18 minutes ago, Traf said:

The problem is that we are still conceding soft goals.

The mainstays of last season's poor defence are all still playing for us, along with a lad who played on loan in L2 last season, who our manager says needs to improve defensively.

We've got eleventy number 10's and inverted wingers, but we're still undone by the straight ball over the top.
Barnsley (A), Blackpool (A) already this season.

It does undermine the whole conceding the fewest shots in the league thing

The benefit is lost when our opponents score so easily from the few opportunities they have

[Wanderlust]

4 hours ago, Cheese said:

Evatt was sacked because he wasn't getting the best out of a squad HE had built over the course of a few years. Schumacher had half a season to assess it, and he's basically scrapped the lot and started again. Utter lunacy to judge him 6 games into the season.

Well if Schumacher is now getting the best out of HIS squad, Im worried because it’s nowhere near as good as what Evatt got out of the old squad.

So are you saying Schumacher is failing  because his squad isn’t as good as Evatt’s squad or that Schumacher is getting less out of the players at his disposal than Evatt did out of his?

[Zog1]

Having reviewed our last 4 games i think the difference between winning and drawing them has literally been due to our wingers cutting in to shoot, 9/10. This has had the impact of giving us plenty of opportunities but very few real ones, we've scored a few due to lucky rebounds. 

The number of times a simple ball to a free/ on running or overlapping Randal, Simons, Erhahon, Morley, Sheehan, Cogley, Conway was ignored is ludicrous it's in double digits every game. The vast majority of which would have resulted in the ball getting into the box. 

The fact we're drawing these while being crippled by this is a great sign. 

I'm worried that SS doesn't see the above, i hope he does and fixes it asap. 

Edited August 31, 2025 by Zog1

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

Well if Schumacher is now getting the best out of HIS squad, Im worried because it’s nowhere near as good as what Evatt got out of the old squad.

So are you saying Schumacher is failing  because his squad isn’t as good as Evatt’s squad or that Schumacher is getting less out of the players at his disposal than Evatt did out of his?

It’s not yet Schumacher’s squad (look at the defence), and he’s had 6 games with it as it is.

You seem determined to be proved right that Schumacher is “failing”. 

[masi 51]

37 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It’s not yet Schumacher’s squad (look at the defence), and he’s had 6 games with it as it is.

You seem determined to be proved right that Schumacher is “failing”. 

The defence is the last part of the re-build it is what is holding us back......You will never convince the Evatt lovers on here otherwise

[boltonboris]

Stockport was a good example of the fine margins and being on the wrong end of decisions. 
 

We should have a penalty and a red card at 0-0. Then were through on the goal and the ref inexplicably gives a foul for a blatant fall with no contact. 
 

They score from a freekick that shouldn’t have been given 

[Wanderlust]

53 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

The defence is the last part of the re-build it is what is holding us back......You will never convince the Evatt lovers on here otherwise

But despite signing 14 players this window, SS signed none of them to replace what you see as the weakest link?
 

Are you saying SS is an idiot?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

There is and has been concern over our ability to defend set pieces. 

At the same time we're not conceding many chances, and the Xg, as illustrated by those graphs, is low. 

The defence and defending as a whole, can't be quite as bad as is being suggested. 

There is arguably a bit of a lack of height there, and clearly a shortage of pace, but the set piece issue and occasional ball over the top should be something the manager and coaches can see and work on, and mitigate.

They don't seem to be SS main concern, or he would have got others in by now.

[Wanderlust]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

It’s not yet Schumacher’s squad (look at the defence), and he’s had 6 games with it as it is.

You seem determined to be proved right that Schumacher is “failing”. 

No - Im saying he’s signed 14 players and had the backing and choice to buy in any position so if he’s chosen not to replace Toal and Johnston for example it’s because he - unlike you - rates them as good enough. He seems quite happy to have inherited Conway too. Those defenders are Schumacher’s choice.

What I am saying is that it is undoubtedly his squad so folk need to stop blaming Schumacher’s results on Evatt or anything else.
 

And FWIW he hasn’t failed yet, but needs to start winning games soon and I really hope he does.