Politics

[Guest]

Th'EU are getting a bit worried about a no deal.

 

Reality from the bureaucrats

[miamiwhite]

Th'EU are getting a bit worried about a no deal.

 

Reality from the bureaucrats

Interesting times ahead.....project fear not quite as good as the remainers think.......twitchy butt time for the EU and their undisputed gravy train.

[Ani]

please can of the Brexit supporters point me to what the deal Boris and Davies want to do is detailed in any way ?

Edited July 22, 2018 by Ani

[bolty58]

please can of the Brexit supporters point me to what the deal Boris and Davies want to do is detailed in any way ?

 

 

Go back to pages 133, 145, 151 and 169.

 

No deal with the EU. Clean break. Many deals with the hundreds of other countries not in the club of 27 contributors to German prosperity. Short term pain? Yes. Long term gain? Most definitely.

[kent_white]

Go back to pages 133, 145, 151 and 169.

 

No deal with the EU. Clean break. Many deals with the hundreds of other countries not in the club of 27 contributors to German prosperity. Short term pain? Yes. Long term gain? Fingers crossed.

EFA

[H]

So this free trade agreement with Japan does that also include free movement of people, abiding by the rulings of the ECJ, paying massive amounts in the kitty and all the other political interference.

Thought not

[Winchester White]

Go back to pages 133, 145, 151 and 169.

 

No deal with the EU. Clean break. Many deals with the hundreds of other countries not in the club of 27 contributors to German prosperity. Short term pain? Yes. Long term gain? Most definitely.

Im with you when optimistic but then reality hits. If short term pain means you lose your job, house and whatever the reult of that is then it is a bitter pill to swallow. Fingers crossed it all turns out OK.

[Ani]

Go back to pages 133, 145, 151 and 169.

 

No deal with the EU. Clean break. Many deals with the hundreds of other countries not in the club of 27 contributors to German prosperity. Short term pain? Yes. Long term gain? Most definitely.

Thanks good to know I had not missed any of the detail.

[Jol_BWFC]

Im with you when optimistic but then reality hits. If short term pain means you lose your job, house and whatever the reult of that is then it is a bitter pill to swallow. Fingers crossed it all turns out OK.

Optimism (and Union Jack blinkers) says that the trade deals we can negotiate will be on great terms and it will all work out rosy. In reality, we have no idea what the terms will be. Nobody does - Trump couldn't event decide last week whether we could or couldn't even negotiate a trade deal.

 

It could be that the power of the EU offers much more than we, as a single nation, can and it turns out our deal is wank. We'll find out in about 7 years when we start signing them.

 

What I would say is that negotiating trade deals during a trade war doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

Twist or stick? Brexiteers think being in the EU means our "hand" is 12 or 13. You twist. Remainers think we're currently sat on 17 or 18, so you stick.

[Salford Trotter]

I can't see that the trade deals we sign will be any better than the current EU trade deals, why would they be?

[Sweep]

I can't see that the trade deals we sign will be any better than the current EU trade deals, why would they be?

...because the entire world is falling over themselves to do deals with us

[Guest]

I can't see that the trade deals we sign will be any better than the current EU trade deals, why would they be?

Of course you can’t!

 

Do you know much about them?

Edited July 22, 2018 by boltondiver

[Jol_BWFC]

...because the entire world is falling over themselves to do deals with us

Our government is a shambles - now would be a good time to try and negotiate with us and exploit our weakness.

[Salford Trotter]

Of course you can’t!

 

Do you know much about them?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

 

The UK represents about 15% of EU GDP so alone we don't have the scale to use as a bargaining tool.

[Casino]

Yeah, but we are great britain

[Guest]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

 

 

 

The UK represents about 15% of EU GDP so alone we don't have the scale to use as a bargaining tool.

So, all you think you know is that it will be worse?

[Salford Trotter]

So, all you think you know is that it will be worse?

Where did i say that? What i said was that we will not get any better deals than the ones the EU has signed because we bring less to the negotiating table. Do you think that we will get better deals?

[tyldesley_white]

Again Greenland took 3 year to sort out one and that was for fish, and these bunch of arsehole cant even get us out of the EU, but people think that the same arseholes will some how will be able get the UK great trade deals , remember the same people

[jules_darby]

...because the entire world is falling over themselves to do deals with us

Obviously

 

We do hold all the cards you know

[bolty58]

Thanks good to know I had not missed any of the detail.

 

 

No thanks necessary. 

[Not in Crawley]

That above had to be one of the best exchanges I’ve read on here.

 

It’s like missing the point is a national game for some folk at the moment.

 

1) You can disagree with someone and them not be an idiot - it’s not mutually exclusive

2) You can disagree with the majority of what someone says and still think throughout a body of work salient points are made

3) Opinons are valid, just because they don’t hold with your own doesn’t necessarily make them invalid

 

It’s really not difficult. The irony of books like When the lights went out being dismiss as ‘left wing journals’ and any right wing source such as Rebel Media held up as bastions of truth cannot be lost on anyone. Unless people are being wilfully ignorant. No one suggested reading Hobsbawm here.

 

The subtleties that personally I don’t agree with some of what Jones writes but yet fail to dismiss him as an idiot seem sadly lost at the moment.

 

The pointlessness of reasoned discussion across social media is blindingly clear in this little exchange, the odd thing is for those of a hard right persuasion is that on here there are very few hard left wing supporters, the fact that anyone who questions your views is barked at for being a libtard I think shows much more about how you perceive yourself rather than your views on others.

[birch-chorley]

I diasagree with Jones and I think he’s a dick head,I’m well within my rights to think that, The point is, when a dick head makes a valid point it’s lost amongst all the other dick head things they do and say.

 

I’m as far from the extreme right as I am the extreme left

 

In fairness to this site, you only have to look on the Trump thread to see plenty of abuse directed his way, Reece Mogg and co get plenty on this thread as well. That would suggest that the site isn’t as one sided as you make out.

[madthatter]

I diasagree with Jones and I think he’s a dick head,I’m well within my rights to think that, The point is, when a dick head makes a valid point it’s lost amongst all the other dick head things they do and say.

 

I’m as far from the extreme right as I am the extreme left

 

In fairness to this site, you only have to look on the Trump thread to see plenty of abuse directed his way, Reece Mogg and co get plenty on this thread as well. That would suggest that the site isn’t as one sided as you make out.

 

I don't pick sides either but I'd say this site is more on the left lean than right - but there's not much in it.

 

I would agree that there is a theme of horn locking rather than rational debate but, as I've been told many times, it's a football forum - not Question Time  

 

Thing is - you watch QT, or whatever, and see so called experts and politicians doing the exact same thing.

 

All my experience when watching or engaged in debate (about anything) tells me that people don't actually want to learn things or aren't really willing to have their opinions changed through exercises in reasoning and critical thinking.   Which is the point, surely?

 

Rather, they see it as an opportunity to massage their ego and anyone who disagrees is a personal threat that must be dealt with by a dogged determination to make them think like you.  I reckon Plato would have been observing the same phenomena all those years ago . . .

[madthatter]

3) Opinons are valid, just because they don’t hold with your own doesn’t necessarily make them invalid

 

 

 

Following on from Birch's post: 

 

If I hadn't seen you continually attempt to ridicule those who think differently you to you, refuse to debate differing points of view and generally dismiss anything not rubber stamped by the Guardian or some minority or other I'd say you have a point

 

 "The point is, when a dick head makes a valid point it’s lost amongst all the other dick head things they do and say."

Edited July 23, 2018 by madthatter

[bolty58]

That above had to be one of the best exchanges I’ve read on here.

 

It’s like missing the point is a national game for some folk at the moment.

 

1) You can disagree with someone and them not be an idiot - it’s not mutually exclusive

2) You can disagree with the majority of what someone says and still think throughout a body of work salient points are made

3) Opinons are valid, just because they don’t hold with your own doesn’t necessarily make them invalid

 

It’s really not difficult. The irony of books like When the lights went out being dismiss as ‘left wing journals’ and any right wing source such as Rebel Media held up as bastions of truth cannot be lost on anyone. Unless people are being wilfully ignorant. No one suggested reading Hobsbawm here.

 

The subtleties that personally I don’t agree with some of what Jones writes but yet fail to dismiss him as an idiot seem sadly lost at the moment.

 

The pointlessness of reasoned discussion across social media is blindingly clear in this little exchange, the odd thing is for those of a hard right persuasion is that on here there are very few hard left wing supporters, the fact that anyone who questions your views is barked at for being a libtard I think shows much more about how you perceive yourself rather than your views on others.

 

 

Not for the first time, I completely and utterly disagree with you - particularly the highlighted statement. I'd say it is the complete opposite. The ones you accuse of being 'hard right' which I know personally are anti Nazi, anti KKK, non racist and sound. Right of centre of the Conservative Party maybe - not hard right.

 

Conversely, we have folk on here who would vote for a cow if it wore a red rosette and champion "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" and his pal - both avowed Marxists.

 

I suppose it depends on what tinge of spectacles you are observing through eh?

 

There is no doubt that the 'mainstream' is somewhere between the centre of the Labour Party (growing to really like Ed Balls by the way and his 'Travels in Trump Country' starting on the 29th of this month looks like essential viewing - especially for anti Trumpers 'of the hard left') and the centre of the Conservative Party and, if I knew 100% that the ridiculous left wing excesses we have had to endure for the last decade or so were history, I would start to classify myself as a more moderate Conservative somewhere in the centre of the blue band. Problem is, the soppy geeks comprising Greens, latent communists, anarchists etc. who appear to be driving this agenda are too entrenched so the equal and opposite reaction is well underway.

 

It is they who have opened Pandora's box.